Mosque going up in NYC building damaged on 9/11
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Benjamin Feinstein
Active Member
So?
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Rick Kent
Well-Known Member
So, how about we build a church in downtown Baghdad on the site of one of the buildings our stealth bombers leveled?
Benjamin Feinstein
Active Member
Sure just as soon as Baghdad has freedom of Religion like we have here in the US we should do just that untill then we will have to settle for being the more mature and diverse nation in the world.
There are just as many nut jobs in Christian sects as there are in Islam.
There are just as many nut jobs in Christian sects as there are in Islam.
EddieS'04
In Memoriam 1950-2022
You only see the ones the liberal media, want you to...
TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree. Yes, there are many examples of Christians who are very devout in their beliefs, adhere to very strict interpretations of Scripture, and would be considered "extreme" by most "mainstream" Christians.
But can you find a group or movement that exists on a global scale as large as the radical Islam extremist movement within Christianity that is so far extreme in their interpretation of teachings that they want to KILL:fire: anyone and everyone who doesn't believe the same way they do, and look upon unbelievers with such deep, raw hatred?:angry:
Radical Islamic Extremists want to KILL:fire: all infidels/unbelievers. In fact, they pretty much hate all of Western civilization and want to kill us all, and create a global, Islamic-law based empire.
Again, looking on a global scale, how many "Christian nut jobs" have carried out terrorist attacks in the last 60 years around the world? Now, look at how many terrorist attacks were perpetrated by Radical Islamic Extremists in the last 60 years against the West, and in the Middle East: '72 Munich Olympics, Daniel Pearl, Nick Berg, 9/11, USS Cole... the list goes on and on.
And I can't ever recall of hearing of a "Christian nut job" group video-taping the brutal, torturous beheading of a hostage, and then posting it on the internet for the world to see.
There's a big, big difference between Radical Islamic Extremists "nut jobs" in Christian sects.
So I can understand why folks might be a little disturbed about a Mosque going up anywhere near Ground Zero. How about if we allow a Bushido (Samurai/Kamikaze code/religion) teaching center to be built at Pearl Harbor? Would that too be an example of showing that we're "the more mature and diverse nation in the world"?
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EddieS'04
In Memoriam 1950-2022
TT, your right. There havent been Christians doing mass killings since the crusades, hundreds of years ago.
IMO, I blame it on the fact that. At that time the bible was not shared and personaly read. It was taught to the people by the church, back then. Many cases it was still in latin, greek and hebrew.
Now that it is printed in almost every language. Also being translated to new languages, still today. We have misionaries from my church. Working with linguist in Papua New Guinea, working on translation now.
Christians can read it for themselves. There are very small factions that let their Pastors take control and take scripture out of context.
Jesus never taught to hate and war against your nieghbor. Example,this group that stands out around soldiers funerals are as mislead as the KKK is. What the news hasnt shown until recently is. The Pastor of that group has had half of his children walk away.
From their own mouth they said. We read the bible for ourselves and found that their father is misleading his church, with his own hatred. Controling his people with his interpretation.
Im glad I can read. I have several english tranlations of the bible. No where does it teach me to hate and make war on those, without my beliefs.
IMO, I blame it on the fact that. At that time the bible was not shared and personaly read. It was taught to the people by the church, back then. Many cases it was still in latin, greek and hebrew.
Now that it is printed in almost every language. Also being translated to new languages, still today. We have misionaries from my church. Working with linguist in Papua New Guinea, working on translation now.
Christians can read it for themselves. There are very small factions that let their Pastors take control and take scripture out of context.
Jesus never taught to hate and war against your nieghbor. Example,this group that stands out around soldiers funerals are as mislead as the KKK is. What the news hasnt shown until recently is. The Pastor of that group has had half of his children walk away.
From their own mouth they said. We read the bible for ourselves and found that their father is misleading his church, with his own hatred. Controling his people with his interpretation.
Im glad I can read. I have several english tranlations of the bible. No where does it teach me to hate and make war on those, without my beliefs.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Fast Eddie said:
Do you believe that people should be able to work on Sunday? Many Christians share different sides to that belief.
On the subject the Bible says:
There are lots of other examples, from killing homosexuals and phrophets, to killing those that dabble in the occult.
I agree that the main message of Jesus is LOVE, but the Bible does have a lot of examples of recommendations to kill others not believing/acting as they "ought to."
TJR
Do you believe that people should be able to work on Sunday? Many Christians share different sides to that belief.
On the subject the Bible says:
There are lots of other examples, from killing homosexuals and phrophets, to killing those that dabble in the occult.
I agree that the main message of Jesus is LOVE, but the Bible does have a lot of examples of recommendations to kill others not believing/acting as they "ought to."
TJR
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Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
"Priesthood of the Believer" is a good thing.
EddieS'04
In Memoriam 1950-2022
Thomas, do you believe in the new testement teachings?
Did not Christ mention. Would not a man tend his flocks and pull a donkey out of a well on the sabbath. If we have to work. I believe because of the blood of Christ (a new covenant) you can still keep the day holy. Do this by keeping in your mind and heart, remeberence of God. Pray during the day. Try to act as Christ, while you work. I know some Christians will say that is wrong. But that would be like saying the blood of christ and his forgivness is void. It is not.
The new testement teaches us that when christ died on the cross. The veil in the temple was torn. We had a direct line to God. Old had passed away to the new, for believers. The 10 comandments still stand. Not the man made stone age punishments. You will still stand before the courts for what we call crimes of today. But through Christ, God can forgive you.
As far as homosexules, murders, liers, thiefs, aduterers, etc etc. The new testement says those that practice these things will not see the kingdom of God. I dont know what to say that really means. My thought is you never believed in the first place. Or you wouldnt live that way. But that is Gods call, not mine.
What the Chtist Instruction to the church was. Have nonthing to do with those type of people. Dont associate with them. He never said to stone them or kill them. He had that discussion with the pharise over the prostitute. You who have never sined, cast the first stone. He said to forgive them of there sins, but love them as god loves them as his creation. But we are not to associate with them. Our parents told us the same thing.
Funny thing about casting stones. It can come in many forms. This board for example. We dont have to call names or make angry statements. If I my use you for an example. After awhile the conversation of continuosly asking the intelectual questions, after the issue has been over with. No one is winning the other over by it. Your defense has been. You were just trying to understand the others point. In emails with other members they understood everyones point. Some that you stayed on top of and some you didnt. Were getting very irrtated by the 21 question game. When all involved made thier point and opinion. Some were feeling intraped. Then it is hard not to be defensive. I know I have. That doenst mean I dislike you. I dont know you. So dont take offense. Im just relaying info from some members personal emails.
I know I dont do right many times myself. But I dont deliberatly live any lifestyle, that would not please God or christ. I have acted out on this board as many have. It is not a common practice though. I know when I have. In some cases I have emailed that member and apolgized. Im just a man, I make mistakes.
I hope your questions are not trying to peg me as some radical fundalmentalist? Im not. Iam a strong believer though. Iam not one those Cristians that believe the old testement eye for an eye. Christs resurection put and end to that.
Honestly, have a blessed day, Eddie
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Eddie,
I'm not trying to peg you as anything. You made an assertion that no where in the Bible does it teach to hate or make war against those that don't hold your beliefs.
I would say there's not much more hateful an act than killing someone. There are several examples where the Bible teaches/instructs that there are those that should be killed, and I gave a few examples of such...one in particular with scripture. The Bible was pretty clear there. It says those that work the sabbath MUST be put to death. Do you BELIEVE that to be the case? Do you share that belief?
I'm simply trying to show that whenever someone takes a literal (aka fundamentalist) intrepetation of the Bible or the Koran then it will inevitably be the case that those books give some instructions that clearly should to be followed as writte, are instructions not for our times, and are often contradictory to other instructions.
That's all I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to call into question your Christianity.
Good to turn the mirror back on me on my behavior, BTW...not sure why you felt the need to do that; but I can take it.
TJR
I'm not trying to peg you as anything. You made an assertion that no where in the Bible does it teach to hate or make war against those that don't hold your beliefs.
I would say there's not much more hateful an act than killing someone. There are several examples where the Bible teaches/instructs that there are those that should be killed, and I gave a few examples of such...one in particular with scripture. The Bible was pretty clear there. It says those that work the sabbath MUST be put to death. Do you BELIEVE that to be the case? Do you share that belief?
I'm simply trying to show that whenever someone takes a literal (aka fundamentalist) intrepetation of the Bible or the Koran then it will inevitably be the case that those books give some instructions that clearly should to be followed as writte, are instructions not for our times, and are often contradictory to other instructions.
That's all I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to call into question your Christianity.
Good to turn the mirror back on me on my behavior, BTW...not sure why you felt the need to do that; but I can take it.
TJR
EddieS'04
In Memoriam 1950-2022
Thomas, all I can say is. Look to the new coventant, Christ. The new testament. The old is not meaningless. But it is more about where, we were and came from. Plus I do believe the prohesies of the coming of Christ. Also the book of Daniel of the end times. Though many theologons dont agree on every detail. Jesus has said, dont let those things worry you. The worry wont gain you anything.
Not for me as a New Testament Christian to worry about. Which old Testament phropets were right or wrong. Or which judges or preists lead the people wrong. After Christ came to his own. He broke that corrupt house up. Even Judism doesnt practice their faith the same since.
If there is somewhere in the New Testament, that. Tells me to kill unbelievers or what the new testament church considers sinners. From the 10 comandments. Or the moral laws of man, that come from the 10. Show me where. All I see is. Not to consort with those that live certain types of life styles. I have none believing freinds, but. They do not live the lifestyles I spoke of before. Their choice to not believe is their Self will, Granted by God. Im not to hate or condemn them.
It is a shame that some radical churches teach from the old testament and forget about Christ and Gods love of every creation. Im glad they are a minority. When they make headline after headline. It hurts the world view of the whole Christian church.
Sorry for turning the stoning issue to your behavior. I believe you are a very intelectual thinker. I feel that gets in the way of ending the conversation and issue of opinions alot. It comes to a point of feeling picked on for some. Then the defensive conversations begin. Maybe you like that. I dunno..IMO after awhile its all nuts.
Yep I said whatever awhile back. Out of frustration, I could see the direction going toward that battle of intelectual wit.
For me I take the Bible on the merits of Faith. I may not understand at the time something new, but. With my own studies and prayer. The Holy Spirit eventual shows me, through many means. Why God thinks that way. How God has trying to protect me from my own stupidity and false beliefs. Im the worst at remembering where some scriptures are, but. It is spoken that the things of of the spirit and truth, are kept from the the wise. Only by faith and ernest desire are they revealed. God has amazed me every day, about myself. In this flesh body I will never be perfect. Daily process..
I dont expect some on this board that have read what I have wrote to understand. Thats ok too. No malice intended.
Iam tired and thru though....See I done went and got defensive.
Not for me as a New Testament Christian to worry about. Which old Testament phropets were right or wrong. Or which judges or preists lead the people wrong. After Christ came to his own. He broke that corrupt house up. Even Judism doesnt practice their faith the same since.
If there is somewhere in the New Testament, that. Tells me to kill unbelievers or what the new testament church considers sinners. From the 10 comandments. Or the moral laws of man, that come from the 10. Show me where. All I see is. Not to consort with those that live certain types of life styles. I have none believing freinds, but. They do not live the lifestyles I spoke of before. Their choice to not believe is their Self will, Granted by God. Im not to hate or condemn them.
It is a shame that some radical churches teach from the old testament and forget about Christ and Gods love of every creation. Im glad they are a minority. When they make headline after headline. It hurts the world view of the whole Christian church.
Sorry for turning the stoning issue to your behavior. I believe you are a very intelectual thinker. I feel that gets in the way of ending the conversation and issue of opinions alot. It comes to a point of feeling picked on for some. Then the defensive conversations begin. Maybe you like that. I dunno..IMO after awhile its all nuts.
Yep I said whatever awhile back. Out of frustration, I could see the direction going toward that battle of intelectual wit.
For me I take the Bible on the merits of Faith. I may not understand at the time something new, but. With my own studies and prayer. The Holy Spirit eventual shows me, through many means. Why God thinks that way. How God has trying to protect me from my own stupidity and false beliefs. Im the worst at remembering where some scriptures are, but. It is spoken that the things of of the spirit and truth, are kept from the the wise. Only by faith and ernest desire are they revealed. God has amazed me every day, about myself. In this flesh body I will never be perfect. Daily process..
I dont expect some on this board that have read what I have wrote to understand. Thats ok too. No malice intended.
Iam tired and thru though....See I done went and got defensive.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Eddie,
In my last response to you had I written a longer version where I talked about the new covenant and the "It has been said, but I tell you that..." teachings of Jesus, but felt it was long-winded and obviously topics you knew a lot about. I feel no need to flex any mental muscles here.
I understand and agree that for most Christians today it is the teachings of Jesus and the New Testament that is the cornerstone to their faith and the way they lead there lives. And that is GREAT!
I was simply showing that you mentioned the "Bible" (not just the NT) and seemed to state with authority (you implied you read many translations) and you claimed that "no where" does it teach to hate or to declare war. I simply showed some examples of scripture that instruct killing, and if interpreted by radicals could be used as such.
Why did I point that out? Was it to prove you wrong?
No!
I pointed those examples out to show the parallel between the muslim extremists. Musli extremists are interpreting their bible in a manner that justifies their killing. Our Bible could be interpreted the same way (and has in the past) by equally warped individuals. Obviously doing so would have one disregard the fundamental teachings of Christ. That would be "picking and choosing" the Bible to serve a purpose.
But, I submit, most people pick and choose from the Bible. I'm sure most Christians don't follow all of Levitacus, for example.
I'm not going to debate what the NT says. You have a handle on that. Your original statement was about the Bible. You didn't say you meant just the NT. I gave an example where the OT instructs us to kill those whose actions aren't appropriate.
From my standpoint I see little difference between "kill all infidels" that muslim extremists belief their bible instructs and "kill those that work on Sunday" that our Bible instructs. When I say I see little difference; I mean that there is little difference to a warped individual that might act upon these commands, and their actions from a hate and declaration of war standpoint.
Nuts will be nuts. There is enough scripture in the Koran and the Holy Bible for the nut to twist, to interpret destructively, and to hate and declare war with. We've seen examples for ages.
Again, I never meant to corner you.
TJR
In my last response to you had I written a longer version where I talked about the new covenant and the "It has been said, but I tell you that..." teachings of Jesus, but felt it was long-winded and obviously topics you knew a lot about. I feel no need to flex any mental muscles here.
I understand and agree that for most Christians today it is the teachings of Jesus and the New Testament that is the cornerstone to their faith and the way they lead there lives. And that is GREAT!
I was simply showing that you mentioned the "Bible" (not just the NT) and seemed to state with authority (you implied you read many translations) and you claimed that "no where" does it teach to hate or to declare war. I simply showed some examples of scripture that instruct killing, and if interpreted by radicals could be used as such.
Why did I point that out? Was it to prove you wrong?
No!
I pointed those examples out to show the parallel between the muslim extremists. Musli extremists are interpreting their bible in a manner that justifies their killing. Our Bible could be interpreted the same way (and has in the past) by equally warped individuals. Obviously doing so would have one disregard the fundamental teachings of Christ. That would be "picking and choosing" the Bible to serve a purpose.
But, I submit, most people pick and choose from the Bible. I'm sure most Christians don't follow all of Levitacus, for example.
I'm not going to debate what the NT says. You have a handle on that. Your original statement was about the Bible. You didn't say you meant just the NT. I gave an example where the OT instructs us to kill those whose actions aren't appropriate.
From my standpoint I see little difference between "kill all infidels" that muslim extremists belief their bible instructs and "kill those that work on Sunday" that our Bible instructs. When I say I see little difference; I mean that there is little difference to a warped individual that might act upon these commands, and their actions from a hate and declaration of war standpoint.
Nuts will be nuts. There is enough scripture in the Koran and the Holy Bible for the nut to twist, to interpret destructively, and to hate and declare war with. We've seen examples for ages.
Again, I never meant to corner you.
TJR
Jacob Dryer
Well-Known Member
Pot officially stirred :angry:
I'm sure some of this is again in interpretation, and for sure taken out of context, but interesting none the less..
I'm sure some of this is again in interpretation, and for sure taken out of context, but interesting none the less..
TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
The big difference is that Christianity and Western civilization in general went through an age of Enlightment and Reason during the 15th, 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries, evolving away from such extreme interpretations of Biblical writings.
In many respects, Islam is still stuck in about the 11th or 12th century.
Kevin Lang
Well-Known Member
Wow, that's an understatement. Whomever wrote your site narrow-minded tried to portray the Bible as being "evil", and did such a shallow job at it that it is insulting. All of the quotes they show are out of context, but even still, some of the quotes the site libels reveal their true intent.
What is especially heinous is where the author makes his own statements, attributes them to Jesus, and then uses weak corroboration with verse to give credence.
eg, "Jesus says that most people will go to hell".
(Not to mention that their web design is rather pathetic)
I think you're giving them too much credit here. They always talk about following the example of "the prophet in Medina", which was in what, 630 AD? These punks are in the first century.
