Metal or Phenolic piston calipers?

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A1cntrler

A1cntrler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2001
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Location
Chesterfield, VA
Looking to replace my rear calipers on my Gen2. I did the rear brakes, new rotors and new pads, but I had a problem when them dragging, likely due to corrosion behind the pistons. I took them back apart, lubed everything up again and it seemed to fix the problem, however for peace of mind I am just going to replace them.



I looked on Rockauto,and while the prices were good, the return of the cores look like it is on me and shipping made it cost more too.



Checked locally at O'Reilly's and they carry ones with the Phenolic and Metal pistons.



Phenolic: http://tinyurl.com/clfhpnx



Metal: http://tinyurl.com/clnnmby



I will probably go with these from Amazon. No cores to worry about, and since I am a prime member I get free 2 day shipping. They are Raybestos reman calipers. I may tear down the stock ones I have and rebuild them for next time. (rebuild kit is like 5 bucks a caliper). No description on Amazon, but the same parts on Rockauto say they include New Phenolic pistons.



http://tinyurl.com/cna74af



http://tinyurl.com/cg4u8nk



Anyways, what are the pros/cons of each kind? I am not sure what kind come new on the Trac. Only info online I could find said that the metal pistons are more prone to corrosion and sticking. But I saw people saying the Phenolic don't transfer heat into the fluid as easily but they are more prone to cracking. I would think that replacing the calipers each job would help out with the cracking.



Does it matter what is on the Trac now, or are the interchangeable?



Looking at the rear pads, it seems there are only one type available, so phenolic/metal must be interchangeable.
 
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Personally, I prefer the metal pistons....Performance wise there is no difference and excessive heat on the rear brakes is really not an issue on a street vehicle.....unless they are dragging.:grin:



Try AutoZone. Their calipers are typically warrantied for life, and it's really convenient to get replacements when you do your next brake job. Way too much hassle with warranty returns on parts purchased on the internet.



...Rich
 
Have never been a fan of anything Auto Zone. They usually only have one brand (Duralast) and 9/10 times when I need something it is only available as an order. I am an ex-Advance Auto employee (had to move to CA for wife's job and no Advance here to Transfer to) and liked that we at least had a selection of parts to choose from and sell. While I may have eventually settled on the Duralast part, I feel that by not giving me a choice of something else is just wrong.



When I search for these calipers on AZ, I see they are special order only and ship to home is the only available option. This means to me that if I do have problems with it, I am stuck waiting anyways.



I have been buying parts online for years and haven't had a problem yet. Even when I was an Advance Auto employee, some things were cheaper even with the shipping for me to get online. With Amazon, I can get the parts next day for 4 bucks, 2 day shipping for free (Prime Member) and I don't have to pay the tax up front (because I ALWAYS fill in that part of my tax return for internet purchases :bwahaha:



The Lifetime Warranty offered by most parts suppliers only covers one replacement, plus 90 days on the replacement part. So I guess basically you get one free replacement, then no warranty. But for 40 bucks for two reman calipers still isn't that bad.
 
A1cntrler,



AutoZone may have changed their lifetime warranty policy, but I know I have change exchanged calipers several times on several vehicles in the past with no questions asked. Perhaps they got wise to me...:bwahaha: Even one replacement set of calipers is still worth the money, even if you have to pay the sales taxes on the first purchase?



I have never had any issues with AutoZone parts...They do carry other brands besides Duralast, but you may have to order them, which still is not bad since you don't have to pay for shipping your old ones back....the store does that, and they can Order and have your calipers within a week...sometimes even faster. If you try to exchange/replace calipers purchased over the internet, you will probably have to get an RMA for authorization to return the calipers, and you may have to wait for them to approve your replacement claim before they send you those replacements under warranty. If you take the old ones to the store with the receipt, they exchange them on the spot, and often let you put the new ones on before you bring the old ones back.



The convenience of being able to handle warranty claims locally far exceeds the dealing with RMAs, and shipping the old parts back.



....Rich



 
I have had better success with metal pistons. Only the alloy ones that are highly polished. I dont know if they still have the chrome plated metal ones. I dont like those. Too much moisture cause the chrome to flake.

I have had the phenolics distort on me. From my driving style. I have had the phenolics chip and crack where they sit on the pads.

That is just my experiance. Others folks could be different.
 
The warranty policy has likely always been the same. When I worked at Advance, we had the same "Lifetime" warranty policy. If the customer was being difficult :smack: or in general an asshat the policy stood. But if they were generally pleasant and easy to work with, and not throwing stuff on the counter saying that the parts are junk, blah blah blah we would work with them to get them what they needed. Good service goes both ways.



Knowing you from the forums and also from dealing with you on my lift for my gen1 and gen2 covers, I'm pretty sure you are the latter type :supercool:



Thanks for your help!
 
Good service goes both ways.
Click to expand...



That is true.

I have had some instances where even the manager wouldnt, honor the black and white print. My onry came out then. I collected names and as much info as I could. Then contacted district.



AZ, owed me a $10 xtra credit from district. Along with refund, Because of a managers own ordering mistake. That manager is not there any longer either.

I was as nice as could be. But the manager mainly said tough, it was an order. Not what I asked for though. He had the correct Item on the screen the day of order. The wrong thing came in the day I needed it. He made me pay up front for a $7 item. Then said,no refund.

Odd enough I went a block away to an independent. Got the right item for $3.85...LOL
 
I always prefer to buy locally. My dilemma is that Amazon sells Moog K80101

rear sway bar end links for $9 shipped vs. O'Reilly's $26 special order + tax.

No brainer, IMO. :banghead:
 
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What I don't understand is why those chain auto stores' receipts fade to a completely blank piece of paper in less than 6 months.:angry:



I've had managers write down warranty information, part numbers, dates, their name and signature. They get kind of annoyed but they know exactly why I do it.
 
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Why not save the money and rebuild the calipers you have? I noticed your in Ca and the location you are at does not lead me to believe that corrosion in your calipers is the problem as the weather there is pretty mild. If you want to get calipers look for Centrics, decent price and decent product
 
The receipts fade because they are a heat transfer type of receipt. No ink is used.



I am in CA now, but only for a little over 2 years. When I ordered and took delivery of my Gen2 I was living in Virginia. It has seen a snowfall or two. I got 80k miles out of the rear brakes when I finally changed them.



I have never rebuilt a set of calipers, and need the vehicle. I will rebuild the ones I take off the ST now after I replace them. Since there won't be a time crunch or a necessity to get them done, I'll rebuild them at my pace and when I have a little bit of time to tinker around.
 
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l1tech,

Brake fluid absorbs moiture from the atomosphere and that leads to corrosion in calipers and wheel cylinders. Dryer climates help a bit, but even the desert has some humidity in the air.



Even in many parts of Sunny CA, there could be a significant amount of humidity in the air. A1cntrler's profile list Moorpark, CA as his residence, and the humidity there today is 96%.



That is significantly higher humidity than we have here in Central Texas yet I have had more problems with corrosion in my calipers here in Texas than I did when I lived in Germany.



As for rebuilding calipers, I found that the rebuild kits and the labor and time involved was not worth the effort when I could simply buy calipers for as little as $19.95 with a lifetime warranty, and I have never had a rebuilt caliper ever fail...but I also flush my brake fluid regularly.



...Rich



 
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Richard



I think you are trying to say brake fluid is hydroscopic. I'm well aware of how brake fluid reacts to the elements. All I'm trying to say is that when I lived in CA this was never an issue. I'm not saying that it isn't his issue but something makes me think that something else is/was going on that caused his problem.
 
l1tech,

Yes brake fluid is hydroscopic, but I did not use that term because some people do not know what hydroscopic means.



The more humidity in the air, the more moisture the brake fluid will absorb over time.



If you do not flush your brake fluid on a regular basis that will lead to corrosion in the calipers and wheel cylinders.



Oddly enough I never had brake caliper corrosion problems until I moved to Central Texas where is very dry? I find that if I flush my brake fluid every 2-3 years or with every brake job, I never have any more problems with corrosion.



One mistake that many people make is to buy a can/bottle of brake fluid to top up their reservoir and then leave the remaining fluid sit on the garage shelf and use it again the next time the fluid level drops. That fluid sitting on the shelf has absorbed a lot of moisture and you are pouring that into your brake system.....NEVER USE AN OPEN CAN OF BRAKE FLUID that has sat more than a few weeks. Garages can use an open can because they are constantly using it to top off customers fluid levels so it never really sits that long after opening. Perhaps Don got some old fluid?



...Rich

 
Psssh, assuming people wouldn't know your big fancy words. I had hyrdroscopic surgery on my shoulder.:cheeky:
 
I assume this is no longer an issue but the only calipers I ever had a problem with were the factory front brakes on a full size Bronco. The pistons were phenolic and every time I ran that thing through water deep enough to get the calipers wet the pistons would stick in the out position the first time I applied the brakes. Not good. Once I replaced the original calipers with ones with metal pistons I never had the problem again.
 
Hugh,

I think you mean, you had Arthroscopic surgery.... But either way, it still hurts...:grin:



....Rich
 
One last opinion, for me.

If the piston is metal and in good condition. Sand or hone any rust off the walls. Calipers for me, are easy to rebuild. Only 1 o-ring and dust boot, $5 to $7 in my area. Takes me 15minutes.



Wheel cylinders for drum brakes, I replace. By the time you need new drum shoes. They are Partialy frozen, leaking or too much rust to hone.
 
Hugh,

I was just showing you that I know two big fancy words, and that is why I used the "Grin" emoticon...:grin: :supercool:



...Rich
 

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