Just what we need,Libya:(

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Caymen said:
Bill,



I agree with you. I only have one question, what should have Obama done?



After you answer it, ask yourself...



What would McCain or Bush have done? What would Reagon have done?



Has Obama done anything that any other president would not have done?

Same thing, I don't have a problem with it except that he ran on a platform of "I will end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, I will close the Guantanamo Bay prison, I will end the policies of George W. Bush...."



Things look different from the Oval Office than the campaign trail, huh Barry?



If our own government would let us drill for our own oil wherever it is found, then we could tell the middle east to kiss off.
 
If our own government would let us drill for our own oil wherever it is found, then we could tell the middle east to kiss off.



When is Brazil getting to work on that mother lode of oil they found off their coast? They said that they would be able to manage extraction forthwith because of their government-run oil companies.

Been months, no word.



"Drill Baby, Drill". Classic.



Jerry G, I'm not disagreeing. If we're going start another war, let's start it correctly. Maybe things would be different if we had a powerful, competent enemy to fight conventionally, but there isn't one.



I take back what I said about being there before--we definitely were, but it was so long ago that it isn't really relevant. I had a memory lapse. :sad:



We do not have xtra finances to keep on lobbing 1.5 mil a piece missles at folks.

This is true, and very sad.



Same thing, I don't have a problem with it

If you don't have a problem with us attacking Libya, then you must know a good reason why we're doing it. Please inform me, as I can't see any pragmatic reason.



Also, isn't this the EXACT same thing that we did with Lebanon, only Lebanon actually attacked us before we bombed the living crap out of them? The history books don't regard Lebanon as having gone down too well.
 
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Would anybody be interested in reading an essay I wrote about U.S. involvement in nation building since 1900? I covered every single instance.



Synopsis: It doesn't work. It never has worked. It is not likely to work in the future.
 
Synopsis: It doesn't work. It never has worked. It is not likely to work in the future.



I'm thinking we don't have to be so conservative--it will never work in the future.



Has nation building ever worked for any nation? Imperialism worked, but that wasn't building a nation so much as a protectorate (and once imperialists withdrew, those nations largely fell).



We try to help South America and Central America--nothing good comes of it. Chad declared independence from France, and France has been trying to help them build a better nation for decades. No luck. Britain and the arabs is infamous. Us and Lebanon, Iraq & Afghanistan. I don't think either Libya or the looming Iran will be any different.

(I'm sure I missed many examples. Would you guys count Yugoslavia?)



We have our own problems at home, let's fix them before we arrogantly try and correct others. This mentality of "others before our own" irks me; like most church missionaries who would rather crusade to save the heathen in Red China than the people in their own towns. (sorry, rant)
 
Just heard a news update on the radio: Both of the aviators have been rescued/recovered. According to the report that I heard, the aircraft went down due to mechanical failure, not enemy fire.
 
Hugh,



I started reading it. Very interesting, so far.



I want to finish it, but I have been up for 54 hours with about 4 hours of sleep during that time. I need some rest before I die.





Tom
 
KL said:
When is Brazil getting to work on that mother lode of oil they found off their coast? They said that they would be able to manage extraction forthwith because of their government-run oil companies.

Been months, no word.

They're working on it right now and we're subsidizing it because a large shareholder in PetroBras is Obama benefactor George Soros. That is WHY you don't hear about it.
 
The downed pilot was rescued by United States Marines. Once again, "to the shores of Tripoli"!:fire::supercool:
 
And bear in mind that all of this is happening while CINC is livin' it up down in Central & South America...
 
:cheeky:



Top 10 Rejected Obama Mission Names



Apparently the White House tossed out a number of perfectly good names before arriving at "Operation Odyssey Dawn":



10. Operation Nine Months In The Senate Didn't Prepare Me For This

9. Operation Organizing for Libya

8. Operation Double Standard

7. Operation FINE! I'll Do Something

6. Operation Enduring Narcissism

5. Operation So That's What the Red Button Does

4. Operation France Backed Me Into A Corner

3. Operation Start Without Me

2. Operation Unlike Bush Wars This One Is Justified Because Hey Look A Squirrel

1. Operation Aimless Fury
 
4. Operation France Backed Me Into A Corner

France can't back anyone into a corner, especially the USA. (I'd like to believe that)



The downed pilot was rescued by United States Marines.

Excellent. Was that the first time the Osprey has been employed on a combat rescue operation? Also, I thought that President Obama had stated that he was not going to employ ground forces in Libya?



What is sad is that we're still using the ancient F-15.

"To keep the peace, one must prepare for war"...or so the saying went.







 
the F-15 airframe may be "ancient" but the avionics and weapons are all up to date and still kicks ass over almost every other non US fighter out there.



I am still a huge fan of the A10. Takes a licking and keeps on popping the turrets of Russian tanks!!!:fire:



 
The F-15 is still an amazing fighter and what Fred says is accurate. They're way too expensive and useful to just scrap because something new is available. We're not talking about middle class people and their cars where to impress everyone they must replace with something new every 3 years or less lest they be considered poor or out of fashion. My vehicles from 2001 and 1969 still run just as well as those $65k cars that are supposed to impress. Think what you want about my social class (I have more money in my pocket than those who wrap it up in their public perception). Maybe the F-15 isn't fashionable, but when another country deals with them, they know they were just hit by one of the most effective and efficient war machines ever created.



My dad works in the F-22 program at Lockheed. That plane is ridiculous but it hasn't seen much action just yet. And the F-35 brings a couple new dimensions to the already seemingly perfect F-22. Unmanned fighter jets are the next wave and they are working on that. Currently, the F-22 is only limited by what the pilots can handle physically. Take them out of the equation and the abilities of these jets becomes incredibly more impressive.



In short, I'd say we are prepared. We're also prepared for the future. Our current aviation technologies are so far ahead of everyone besides Russia and China that we're in a good position as far as that's concerned. Even those two countries are behind the game, though.



The problem is our inability to separate our politically correct comfortable western lifestyle from the harsh realities of war. Go in, do the job, get out. People will die. It is sad, but it must be faced. I think more Americans die in combat than necessary because we don't use our full force all at once and end the war in as short a time as possible. I believe if we went in with a mission and purpose and put every bit of effort we had into it, places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya would be crushed in a month. Then, let the useless U.N. jump in and set up governments to their liking.



Or, as I'd prefer. Keep our military as it was intended. For our domestic security. Screw Libya and all the rest. When it becomes obvious that another country sponsored an attack on our soil, be swift and harsh but return home ASAP. Nothing would be more of a deterrent than knowing that if one of your citizens attacks the U.S. and it even has a hint of being state sponsored, your entire country will be in shambles in less than a month. And don't stay to clean up the mess. Retaliate and walk away. How many leaders would risk complete decimation of their infrastructure and financial security to make a political point of blowing up one or two buildings?



We can't afford long drawn out, politically correct, foreign life-saving, soldier-killing nation building. The U.S. needs to start being more concerned with the U.S. I'm not proposing an isolationist stance, but we do need to realize we cannot fix every problem in the world. We haven't even solved the problems of our own country, yet. We act so pompous on the world stage as if we have, though, and I think that is part of the problem many around the world have with us as a country.



Tom, finished reading yet?
 
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