hydro-gen bolt on

[Larry Gamble]

I stumbled onto these guys located in Florida. http://hydro-generator.webs.com/



My understanding is that it take significant amounts of current to get even a small amount of hydrogen gas and that makes it impracticable for these type applications.



Anyone else heard of these guys????



THIS IS THEIR CLAIM and of course they have testimonials of SUV driver going from 16 to 23 mpg and such.



"HYDRO-GEN is a complete system thats AFFORDABLE and SIMPLE to install, anyone can do it.



This is not new technology. Weve been using water to gas converters in our vehicles for over 4 years. This is proven technology. Using a simple device, you can use the electricity from your battery to separate water (H2O) into a gas known as HHO. HHO is two parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen. HHO is a supercharged gas that burns effectively and produces significant energy, greatly improving your fuel economy. Incredibly, the waste product is water!"

 

[Carey Frennier]

scam imo.

 

[Richard L]

Larry,

Yes, there are a number of these hydrogen generators on the market. They use electrostatic currents to separate the Oxygen from the Hydrogen atoms in the water (H2O). Small quatities of hydrogen can be extracted from water and injected into the engine thus using less gasoline.



The problem is that it appears to be somewhat like a perpetual motion device that consumes the same amount of enery that it creates, and therefore does not realy do any work.



Unfortunately water is one of the more stable molicules and it is difficult to separate the individual elements, but it can be done. They have found that desolving some salt into the water (about the same concentration as sea water) that they can extract the hydrogen atoms from the water more easily and more efficiently, but not so much that it make a big difference. The electrical power required to extract hydrogen from water can be signiicant and has to come from somewhere? If it's from batteries, those batteries must be charged, either by the alternator, or by AC battery charger and that energy cost money.



These devices do not generate enough hydrogen to run the engine on pure water and they still require you to by gas. Also, the water can be corrosive to engine and exhaust parts since the by-prduct of burning hydrogen is water. Engines that have sucessfully used this technology have required that the cylinders, combustion chambers, and other internal engine components be teflon coated to prevent damage from the water.



I have hopes for this process in the future, but it certainly is not a viable alternative method of fuel for automobiles, and conversion kits for existin engines are not worth the money.



...Rich

 

[EddieS'04]

We had one or two members build thier own. Not much to it. IIRM, they didnt see any mpg difference.

These kits do not produce enough to completely eliminate gasoline. You hook the hygrogen produced to your intake. Suppose to cause less gasoline used. Nada....

You would need a much larger hydrogen generator, to make a difference. A pickle jar wont do it.

 

[Larry Gamble]

Thanks folks, I figured it would not be worth the price and their super cheapo website was the first red flag I got when checking them out.



I didn't think there had been a radical change in the physics of electrolysis to un-combine the hydrogen molecules in the 25 years since I finished college chemistry. When I saw the size of the "generator" I was a bit surprised and figured it'd have nearly fill the bed of the ST to be even somewhat effective.



I didn't think about the teflon coating need in the engine and exhaust to prevent water damage.

 

[Phil Frady]

A guy at work built one of these for his Mercury Marquis. He said it would burn hot, which made the computer think it was lean and add more fuel. There was supposed to be a adaptor for the O2 sensor to help with that situation. He did say he could not really see a difference in the gas milage. After thinking about this, the electricity is causing the gases to separate and this unit is not setup to contain the gases separately. I think you would see better results if you just burned Hydrogen.



If it was practical, then we would have more on the road instead of the garage.

 

[Dale Gibson]

Im pretty sure that the E-F member aldive built one of his own for a 90's explorer, and when he was finished with his ex, he was capable of 30+ mpg, how much of that was from his h generator I don't recall, but it may be worth taking a look. Sadly he's no longer with us to answer questions.

 

[chargedtrac]

My dad had started to put together a similar kit that I think he had bought from some outifit in England before he passed, but hadn't completed the install.



Though my brother-in-law put one in a '96 Dodge Ram, which seemed neat when he showed it to me. As Funmobile described, my b-in-law also experienced a similar lean condition. And I think had an issue with the charging system (vague recall). He had it installed and messed with it for about 2 or 3 weeks, then took it out. Mpg increase was slight if at all.

 

[Andres Mumma]

While 'hydroxy' technology as it is called may not be mainstream, there is some merit to it.



Mileage increases of 5-20 MPG are common when done correctly. Like with most mechanical endeavours, owning a garage and a set of wrenches doesn't make you a mechanic, despite popular belief among auto enthusiasts. Likewise, there are dozens of incarnations of hydroxy generators including those made in mason jars. This doesn't mean the tech itself is not a good idea, simply the execution may be at fault. Mostly just some people working with whatever limited resources or ability they have to try to do what the big boys are doing.



Like most public domain type technologies, it is mostly through the tinkering and research of curious individuals and those willing to think outside the box that these systems have been progressing at all, so the kinks and inefficiencies are still being worked out on a daily basis. Although some have progressed the tech sufficiently for it to be useful such as March Labs has done.



Do a search for 'hydroxy generators' or 'browns gas generators' and you may find more than you ever wanted to know about this tech. As these are not purely hydrogen burning systems.



There have been cases, although not very well documented about some that have been able to completely eliminate the need for gasoline. Most of the hydroxy systems available on the market today are meant to be a supplement to gasoline. Some of them are cheesy and others are approaching awesomeness. One should always expect both extremes, especially when dealing with auto enthusiasts and week-end wrench turners. As many of us are extremists at times.



There are better suppliers of hydroxy systems than the one posted by the OP. In my opinion March Labs has done quite a bit of their own research and work on this tech, and done extremely well at working out the bugs including the aforementioned O2 sensor issues, and the computer controlled engine issues which plague most DIYers and kits for this tech.



Most systems don't provide a good mileage inclease because the on board computer hasn't taken into account the hydroxy being fed into the engine, since the hydroxy isn't metered by the on-board computer it cannot adjust the gasoline appropriately.



If I haven't figured out another way when I am ready to do this conversion I will install one of their systems without a doubt http://www.marchlabs.com/.



It is my belief that additional study into these hydroxy systems will pave the way for purely hydrogen based systems based on an on-demand hydrogen generation.



The negative, ugly, and highly inefficient side to current hydrogen vehicles is trying to store the hydrogen on-board rather than create it. Hydrogen doesn't store easily or safely in the quantities needed for the kind of mileage we demand. Oil and automobile companies are doing what they can to discredit or snuff out any technology that can't be metered at a pump including those that are leading to on-demand hydrogen. Hydrogen vehicles will be much safer, lighter, and efficient if they can generate hydrogen on-demand.



While electrolosis isn't the most efficient way of breaking apart water molecules, which is a major feat in and of itself, it is a cheap and easy method to implement within the confines of existing vehicle equipment. Which is why it is the preferred method of most DIY garage upgraders and hydroxy kit builders. There are other ways which are proving to be much better than straight electrolosis, such as harmonics, which I think will lead to further breakthroughs.





Andres.

 

[ray moyer]

if this actually worked, id be able to afford to keep my sport trac :banghead:

 

[Richard L]

reaper,

It does work, to a degree. It's just that there is way too much hype about the current system available and contrary to the hype you still need to buy gas, and they do not improve gas mileage significantly. Most never mention that the byproduct of hydrogen combustion is water and that can damage internal engine parts if they are not coated.



I know of only one case where a guy claims to be able to power a conventional compact vehicle solely with an onboard hydrogen generator and no other fuel source but water. Of course he will not show anyone, or provide any evidence that what he says is true...so most people dismiss his claim. He claims that he is protecting his invention. I think he is either Vietnamese, Cambodian or Indonesian. So they may have little or no patent laws???



...Rich

 

[ray moyer]

well i mean i know hydro powered things do exist, but i meant the kit in general, but out of curiosity i did call the company and talk to a rep...



what he told me and what i read on his site has me... intrigued to say the least.... i would be curious to see a sport trac with the kit...

guy said he hooked up a few explorers that recorded 40% gains... i wish it wasnt so much, it would be interesting to test it out...

 

[Richard L]

reaper,

Ask the guy if you can get a full refund within 30 days if you don't get a 40% gain in the first week of use? My guess is he will make all kinds of excuses why he can't do that...:grin:



If he does agree to that, be sure he puts in writing in an email, and make sure you pay with a credit card that will allow you remove the charge if he does not give the refund.



Many years ago I purchase a "So called" gas saving device. In this case it was in a magazine, but their office was here in Waco. Suspecting a scam, I went there and purchased the device with a credit card.



They guaranteed a 20% MPG improvement after 1500 miles (no time limit) or your money back. I was doing a lot of driving at that time and clicked off 1500 miles in just a few weeks and never saw any improvement. I took the device off my car and went back to their office and they had closed. I went to the office next door and they said that they packed up the office and moved out in the middle of the night about a week earlier.



When the charge hit my CC bill I called the CC company and told them that they advertised the device with a 100% satisfaction gurantee. She sent me a form I filled out with copies of my documentation, and they removed the charge off my bill pending a response from the seller...which never came and I was never charged.



My point is although the small, onboard hydrogen generators separate the hydrogen from the oxygen in water, they do not create enough gas in suffient quantities to make any significant difference in gas mileage and nowhere near a 40% improvement....Any improvement often comes from the driver practicing better driving techniques and more mindfull of trying to save gas, and then they credit the hydrogen generator because they paid so much for it, and don't want to look foolish.



If they worked a well as the hype would have you believe, they would have no problem guaranteeing a significant minimum mileage improvement and not the usual "UP TO xx% Improvment" crap that they try to use...



...Rich

 

[ray moyer]

he actually did say there was a 30 day guarantee..



ill call again and get more info for you guys, maybe i can convince him to use me as a test pilot for STs hahahaha

 

[Richard L]

reaper,

You need to find out what he is guaranteeing for 30 days? The fact that it generates hydrogen, is not saying much if it does not save you any gas, and be sure to get it in writing and have him email the guarantee to you if it's not available on the website. Only pay with a credit card that you can challenge the charges if the guy is out of business in 30 days?



Actually I have seen some companies selling new products that will not even charge your credit card for 30 days to insure you are satisfied with the product. Of course that can also be because companies who get too many credit card charges contested or reversed have to pay extra fees for their merchant accounts. ( l look into getting a merchant account with my LeverLift business and there were just too many picky rules...I just stuck with PayPall)



I think about a few years ago a member here bought some sort of fuel catalyst device (claimed to hyper-activate the ions in the fuel to extract more power and mileage??) and he was going to report the results. I think he initially thought there was a small improvement in mileage, but I think it was short lived. I don't recall if he posted anymore after the intial few weeks, and I don't know what happened after that.



I have included a link to HydroGenerator website. Carefully read their warranty...it only guarantees that the unit will produce Hydrogen and the quality of the materials used in the products. Also notice that while they claim UP TO 60% improvements in gas mileage, their warranty has a Performance Disclaimer. They guarantee nothing as far a fuel savings or more HP...they only make excuses as to why they cannot warranty any mileage or HP improvements.



Good luck if you do this, and keep us posted.



...Rich