Government Run Health Care

[troy malone]

H R 615 - Please forward to everyone you know





Subject: HR 615



On Tuesday, the Senate health committee voted 12-11 in favor of a two-page amendment, courtesy of Republican Tom Coburn which would require all Members of Congress and their staff members to enroll in any new government-run health plan.



Congressman John Fleming has proposed an amendment that would require Congressmen and Senators to take the same health care plan that they would force on us. (Under proposed legislation they are exempt.)



Congressman Fleming is encouraging people to go to his Website and sign his petition. The process is very simple. I have done just that at:

http://fleming.house.gov/index.html .

Senator Coburn and Congressman Fleming are both physicians.

Regardless of your political beliefs, it sure seems reasonable that Congress should have exactly the same medical coverage that they impose on the rest of us.

Please urge as many people as you can to do the same!

 

[EddieS'04]

Good for the goose is good for the gander. Signed the petition the otherday. I wanted to post it here as you did, Troy. I just wasnt in the mood to be called an out of touch idiot. As in the past. Their pensions also need to be more inline with the rest of us also.

 

[OLE442]

Eddie....I totally agree with you on all points!



'07 ST

 

[Tom Schindler]

Their pensions also need to be more inline with the rest of us also.

Nobody should ever allow someone to decide their future unless they are part of it.



As long as we elect the rich to make laws, the poor will always be poor since the rich will always take care of the rich.



This is no different.





Tom

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Tom,



Unfortunately, you have to be rich to campaign of office, or have rich friends who will then be your puppeteer when you are elected.



I don't see the poor doing too bad in the US, compared to the rest of the World. The government makes sure they have a roof, meals, and usually they are given enough money for them to have a mobile phone and cable TV. Don't even get me started on how much the poor use on booze, cigarettes and drugs.



The poor in Poland live with their family or friends. Have you ever seen five people living in a two room flat? Not two bedrooms...two rooms. I have friends who even live in one room flats, which are 40 square meters or less. This is how half the people in Poland live, and they have no car and no mobile phone.



As far as Government Healthcare, I can't say it is too bad. The military has their government HMO and my family and I never suffered.



Now if we have something like Poland, there will be a revolt. I have a friend who lost some of her eyesight while waiting nine months to see a doctor about a problem with her blood. Another friend has a relative who died two weeks before he was to have heart surgery. He had been waiting six months.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Unfortunately, you have to be rich to campaign of office, or have rich friends who will then be your puppeteer when you are elected.

Actually that isn't true. Many times we just choose to vote for the one that spends the most on a campaign. If we took a stand and voted for someone other that a rich white man, things could get better.

Have you ever seen five people living in a two room flat?

Ever been to Hawaii? There are 15 to 20 people living in a 600 square foot home. Ever lived in the ghetto? I have seen many people living in a small apartment. I used to joke and say when they fell asleep, they were wrapped in blankets and placed up against the wall.



Unfortunatly, this is not something to joke about.

Don't even get me started on how much the poor use on booze, cigarettes and drugs.

So if you are poor, that makes you a drinker, smoker, and druggie?



Could it be that some poor people are like that and some rich people are like that?





Tom





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen said:

So if you are poor, that makes you a drinker, smoker, and druggie?



Could it be that some poor people are like that and some rich people are like that?

You missed the point. What Nelson was saying was that our poor, for the most part, have it very well off when considering the poverty in other countries. Our poor have cell phones and cable TV. Our poor buy beer, and expensive cigarettes (and some buy drugs). Our poor's #1 health problem is obesity (I added that one).



I think what Nelson was trying to say is that as the richest people in the world, our poor are the envy of many of the various classes in other parts of the world. Our poor have it better than many countries middle class, even some countries rich.



TJR

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Right. The AVERAGE worker in Poland makes the equivalent of around $7,000/year...and Poland is far from the poorest country in Europe. And of course, Europe is the second richest continent in the World.

 

[OLE442]

If we took a stand and voted for someone other that a rich white man, things could get better.

Ah gee....I think someone other than a rich white man was elected! I'm getting the feeling things are going to get a lot worse...just MO!



'07 ST

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen said:

If we took a stand and voted for someone other that a rich white man, things could get better.

You mean better like with this SC Mayor that is neither white, nor a man?



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[Tom Schindler]

The AVERAGE worker in Poland makes the equivalent of around $7,000/year...and Poland is far from the poorest country in Europe.

I am fully aware that Poland is not a "poor country" compared to some of the former Soviet block nations are.



Point is, that sure the poor in out country may be better off than those that are poor in other nations, that still doesn't mean the poor don't suffer. Being poor is relative. I may be considered poor. If I were working for the wage I recieve in my home town in NYC, LA, San Diego, or Miami I would be poor. Living where I live and making the money I make, I am upper middle class.



It is easy to say, those in Poland make an average of $7,000/year so the poor are not really poor does not mean those making that $7,000/year can not afford to eat. Prices of goods are reflected by the money the people have. If nobody has money to spend, then either the prices will come down or the wages come up.



Which worldwide city has the highest number of billionaires living in it?





Tom

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Tom,



That city is Moscow, Russia. Apparently, our former Socialist foe is better at Capitalism than we are.

 

[Tom Schindler]

That city is Moscow, Russia. Apparently, our former Socialist foe is better at Capitalism than we are.

Yup, you are correct. Learned that on a show called "Cities of the underground". Very interesting show.





Tom

 

[Kevin Lang]

If nobody has money to spend, then either the prices will come down or the wages come up.

That doesn't sound quite right. If I'm selling my goods here and in Poland, and the Poles can't pay, I'm gonna cut operations.



If people can't afford to buy the food, the price can only drop to the point that people break even, and what farmer is gonna work just so that he doesn't loose money on his crop? Wages can't magically go up as wealth doesn't magically come to suit the need. To pay people more to afford goods means people have to get fired or not hired to make up for the added burden.



Maybe the soviets have less government restrictions in their way, and less unions and workers who work for less around? I think that's a large factor.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

KL is right. Wages don't simply go up because people can't afford things. At least not forever. That's kind of what inflation is. Many companies did not COL (cost of living) increases the past few years because of the economy, and because they didn't have to. COL has been flat, if not dropping in most areas (that's a recession). You can't have inflation and recession at the same time.



People are spending less now because of the economy (they are cautious). The economy is bad because people are spending less. Vicious circle.



TJR

 

[TrainTrac]

You can't have inflation and recession at the same time.

Sure you can. It's been happening for the last year or so. The economy has been in a recession, and the Fed's been printing more Monopoly (oops, I mean fiat) money and dumping it into the economy, causing the value of the dollar to drop.



We should as a country go back on the gold standard. Was a bad move by Tricky Dick to take us off of it.

 

[Tom Schindler]

That doesn't sound quite right. If I'm selling my goods here and in Poland, and the Poles can't pay, I'm gonna cut operations.

Then you will lose that market.



Point is, the wages MUST support the cost of living or the cost of living MUST be supported by the wages. You can not have a low wage and a high cost of living where one can not afford to live. It won't work.



Either the wages will have to come up or the prices go down. Henry Ford besed his business on if I pay my employees more, then they will spend more. If they spend more than more people will buy my product.



Henry Ford had a very interesting business practice. Guess what! It worked, actually it worked very well.





Tom

 

[Kevin Lang]

Then you will lose that market.

The branch must be pruned to save the tree, n'est-ce pas?



Unless I'm getting something out of a market which leads to greater revenue than I'm loosing from it, I'm not going to keep it going.



If that market can't pay, that market doesn't exist. If I decrease prices there, people from countries where I'm paying more will cry foul, and I'll have issues to deal with that I don't take kindly to.



If anything, that was a minor reason for HF paying his employees more. Hundreds, or even thousands, of people spending more in a country of millions is not going to magically make people able to buy his cars. A more pertinent reason is that he demanded the best, and paid for it accordingly.

You can not have a low wage and a high cost of living where one can not afford to live. It won't work.

Yes, yes you can. People will commute from a place with a low cost of living and low wages to a place with higher wages, but wages so low that they could not sustain a person living in the area they're earned. The highest a Park Ranger can be paid is 40,000 USD starting to work at the national monuments in DC. If you're trying to live in DC for 40k, you'd better be getting some serious welfare checks. Yet, there are park rangers in DC. (And they're not black, which means the odds are low that they're getting said welfare checks)



People will work more hours, and most importantly, not everyone is paid the same. Just because some people call claim they can't live there because of cost, doesn't mean that everyone can't live there because of cost.



Caymen, are you a closet Socialist? This thread is making me wonder.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Caymen, are you a closet Socialist? This thread is making me wonder.

No. I just choose not to drink the conservitive kool-aid, much the same as I refuse to drink the liberal kool-aid.





Tom

 

[Tom Schindler]

The highest a Park Ranger can be paid is 40,000 USD starting to work at the national monuments in DC. If you're trying to live in DC for 40k, you'd better be getting some serious welfare checks. Yet, there are park rangers in DC. (And they're not black, which means the odds are low that they're getting said welfare checks)

Are you a closet racist? Your comment makes me wonder. If that Park Ranger were black, the odds would be higher that he would also be collecting welfare?



Seriously? That is really disterbing that one, you feel that way, and two, you actually say it around members that could be black, and finally third, you see nothing wrong with your comment.





Tom