Friggen college is short changing us...what do you recommend i say next?

[Mike Dziubina]

to make a long story short... Kinda...i attend Quinnipiac University. I am an undergraduate Physician Assistant student in my senior year. QU is a great school which is climbing the ranks on the list of colleges in NE. To gain further recognition, we are trying to compete as a research institution such as harvard, NYU, villanova, yale, etc... soooo i and a few fellow PA student were interested and approached by one of our professors who teaches Biochemistry for QU and yale. We agreed to do research and began over the summer. we are now in our 7th week and have made many advances in our topic of research, Homocystein, a type of amino acid which has been the main focus of research in the medical field. The college is exceptionally pleased with our work and would like to print our info (not findings) in a brochure for the school to show we are competing for the research fields. I have submitted my abstract to the American Chemistry Society and have been accepted to present my work at the 2010 ACS convention in San diego cali. QU is excited and wants us to represent the school there to gain publicity, i am excited because i am planning on being published. so we made arrangements, calculated all costs for 5 people. bare minimum we needed was 4600 bucks. keep in mind we did not include a rental car, nor are we staying at the ritz. Airfare, and a motel, and the entrance fee to the convention is all we asked for. welllllllll....we got a letter back saying we have only been approved for 1000 dollars by the president. our jaws hit the floor. 1k bucks for 5 people to go to cali do do a good thing for the school. thats 200 bucks a person. :angry:



now im in a catch. what do you guys/gals think we should write back? we are both sad and angry and have an idea what to write back, but i want to hear more points of view. It would be great if i could attend a prestige convention such as the ACS and be published so i cannot merely say, screw you QU we arent going now. what do we say??? i would like opinions. thanks.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Go on your own and NOT as a rep from the school. All stand together and not go. Just go and eat the difference.



Whatever works for you.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Mike,



My take on this...



You said:

I have submitted my abstract to the American Chemistry Society and have been accepted to present my work at the 2010 ACS convention in San diego cali. QU is excited and wants us to represent the school there to gain publicity, i am excited because i am planning on being published. so we made arrangements, calculated all costs for 5 people.

You kept saying "I" above, then it become "us" and "we".



If this is your paper, and your abstract, and your presentation on collaborative research then you should probably only expect the college to pay your expenses.



The fact that the college isn't providing enough expense money to send you all means that they in fact DO NOT want all of you to represent them, but instead just one of you to represent. Words are cheap, actions are not. Their actions show their real valuation of having several represent.



TJR

 

[Les]

Go on your own and NOT as a rep from the school.

The school owns the research, not ethical.



Go see the President of the school and present your side. If the additional funds are not awarded, since you are the one accepted as a presenter, take the $1000 for yourself and go. It doesn't take five people to make a presentation, and only the lead scientist is the one that usually presents the findings.

 

[Jenn D]

I say push for more funds, but regardless of outcome, go anyway (if you can afford it). Represent your school, and more importantly yourself, as much as possible to everyone you come in contact with. The people you meet at these type of conferences are worth more than the $3600 difference you will assuredly have to make up. It will come back to you, trust me.

 

[TrainTrac]

+1 for what Jenn said. This may cost you a little more out of pocket than you originally anticipated, but it's an incredible networking opportunity for you. Go.

 

[Mike Dziubina]

You said that the college is poised to publish "info, not findings" in a "brochure."

sorry TJR i did word that weird. the school wants to put us in a brochure, as to show we are getting into research. but our findings are to be published in a national chemistry journal which is big time for a 21 year old. sorry i did word it confusing.

Are you going to speak at the conference about your research? Or, are you looking at the conference trip as some form of recognition for the work you have done (i.e. the convention is the reward)? I guess I am asking is this conference an opportunity to showcase your work, or a reward for the work done....or both?

i will have a 3' by 5' print on display to show my work and explain my findings if asked. in a ways a reward, but it is to further the knowledge of our topic for everybody.



and no worries.. no offense taken. i see how you understood my post.



Les - i see your side as well and thanks for your info. however my 2 other buddies and i alll contributed to the same topic. we all have different presentations, but contributed to all works. i understand, but i feel everyone contributed equally and deserves a place there. thank you. and yes the school technically owns the research. you are correct so that is where there is a catch. if i go and present, it has to say Quinnipiac university, and i have to state i am a Quinnipiac student.

I say push for more funds, but regardless of outcome, go anyway (if you can afford it). Represent your school, and more importantly yourself, as much as possible to everyone you come in contact with. The people you meet at these type of conferences are worth more than the $3600 difference you will assuredly have to make up. It will come back to you, trust me.

Jenn/traintrac - that is kind of my position as of now, you pretty much summed up my position. however, i know my fellow peers would not be able to afford it and i dont know if i can say, well too bad guys, u cant afford it, i can, im going without you. ya know? these are two buddies of mine that have scratched my back as i have scratched theirs all throughout our undergrad time as PA students. without them, i would have been kicked out of the program, and likewise for them. But i hear you loud and clear and thats pretty much my stance as of now. thank you!



thank you to all so far. I know this is something i dont want to miss and understand the people i would meet would be incredible, but its just this darn monetary situation. i just dont understand how the school can almost throw dirt in our face and still expect to gain incredible recognition. i mean if we were to represent the school it would do big things for it. ohh yeah...we were supposed to get paid(nothing big) by the school because technically we were employees during the summer, but we told them to save it in case something like this arose. go figure.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Mike,



I reread your post after a couple of the comments and revised it above before youe last post.



I think though the college is saying they want you all to represent them, their actions show something different.



Since this is your paper and presentation I say go for it and don't feel too badly about it all.



TJR

 

[Jenn D]

You might want to consider trying to tap departmental funds, and not just school funds. Many times, individual departments have money earmarked for such situations. Look at also possibly requesting funds from local medical labs, or anyone else who may fund your research, even if it's only through equipment.



There are lots of avenues, but many of them take a long time.



As for going without your friends, it's a tough decision to make. If you are able, you could offer to help them secure funds. If they are close enough friends, you should know for sure they will find a way to repay you. If not, sometimes as harsh as it sounds, you have to do what's best for you. You could always present them as co-partners not in attendance, and speak highly of them.



It's a tough situation all the way around, but on the other hand, it's a great situation to be in too. Congrats btw!

 

[Tom Schindler]

The school owns the research, not ethical.

If the school thought it would be something to advance the school, they would do something about it.



I will NOT advance my employer with technological advancements without just compensation. If the employer made it in writing that they get everything and I get nothing, then my ideas will NEVER become anything more than my ideas.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen said:

If the school thought it would be something to advance the school, they would do something about it.

They are doing something about it. They are paying to send one student to represent them.



The question is, is that that enough representation and does that level of expense funding represent the college's true desire of representation?





Caymen also said:

I will NOT advance my employer with technological advancements without just compensation.

I would agree with that. Professionals get to decide what they feel is "just compensation", and if they don't feel fairly treated should bring that up with their employer and if things are rectified be willing to go elsewhere; where their contributions will be properly compensated.



Lastly, Caymen said:

If the employer made it in writing that they get everything and I get nothing, then my ideas will NEVER become anything more than my ideas.

Correct. Most corporations and academic foundations that employ "knowledge workers" require that their employees sign a "employee handbook" of some sort. Their signature on that handbook indicates that they have read and understand the terms within. Typically, one common stipulation in such handbooks is that all work product, both in physical and thought form that is generated while employed becomes the exclusive property of the employer.



I've signed several such handbooks.



It's the nature of being a knowledge worker.



In my line of work if one has an epiphany they need to do it on their own time, and when they have one, they should tender their resignation BEFORE acting on it IF that idea represents an area of interest or competition for the employer.



TJR

 

[Jenn D]

Ha! Look at what I do for a living. I WRITE text books, and it gets passed on to various doctorates or professionals in the field to "review", and when they approve, it gets plopped down as "their work", and the book shows them as the author. Forget that I wrote it, revised it, and ultimately did the work. My name doesn't even appear in the book when it is completed.



I accept this though because this is just the way it is. Would you buy a math text book that was written by Jane Smith, B.S. in Mathematics, or Dr. Joe Schmo, Specialist in Education, Head of World's Greatest University's Math Department? You have to accept that for a company to make money, they have to present only their most impressive foot. It keeps me employed...

 

[Gavin Allan]

You should have done something for the football or basketball program. Then your request would have been approved and probably the budget doubled.

 

[Paul Maurer 2]

Congrats on the honor. I don't think its reasonable for your college to fund 5 people to travel to present a poster, and, as the lead author, you should go. When I was a junior in med school, I worked on a research project studying a degenerative corneal condition called keratoconus and wrote a paper as well. Oklahoma College of Medicine was trying to up their research image as well and sent me to my very first American Academy of Ophthalmology meeting- in Las Vegas! Oklahoma was very oil rich at the time, so I stayed at Caesar's Palace, went big on entertainment and had a blast. I also met some colleagues who are still friends. I doubt there will be many PAs at a chemistry meeting, but there may be some hot research assistants willing to discuss your findings in detail......

I hope you go and have a great time. I always spelled it homocysteine- is it acceptable to drop the final "e"?

 

[TrainTrac]

I will NOT advance my employer with technological advancements without just compensation. If the employer made it in writing that they get everything and I get nothing, then my ideas will NEVER become anything more than my ideas.

A very valid point. However, I don't think that it applies in this particular case. If I understand Mike correctly, he's a student, not an employee. So he's being justly compensated for the research he's performing in the form of grades and/or college credits, and eventually a degree from the university.



The real benefit that Mike will gain from this is the networking he can accomplish at the convention, which could help him line up a good job upon graduation.

 

[Les]

I will NOT advance my employer with technological advancements without just compensation. If the employer made it in writing that they get everything and I get nothing, then my ideas will NEVER become anything more than my ideas.

Tom, I agree, however, if you develop something at work your employer owns it, you don't. If you develop something outside of work, for work, you own it. A good example is Gatorade, which was developed by medical researchers at the request of the current football coach at the University of Florida while on the payroll. Eventually the University of Florida settled with the developer and to this day receives royalties.

 

[Chris Taylor]

By all means, you should go if nobody else can. You are the principle. The networking at these meetings is invaluable. The other suggestions about trying the department and going to see the president are also good, but if nothing works, you should go!



And since you are a student(or even an employee), things are a little different on who owns the research. Usually, it's the institution. Been that way as long as I can remember. Do the research outside of the university, and it's yours. For profs, it depends on their contract.



Congrats on the work and being accepted to present at the conference!

 

[Jeffrey Travis]

Find out what the norm is from the school as far as sending people to conventions and the like.

 

[Mike Dziubina]

Thanks to everyone. some great responses here. We met this morning to discuss the issue. We are planning on fighting for more money and if all else fails, i will more than likely go anyways and take the hit.