decline of morals, honesty. is it just me?

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TJR: I'm inclined to agree with your wife. :lol:



Bill V: You might be an optimist. ;)



I own a drug store. I've been in the business for 35 years. My personal experience indicates that honesty and morality have decreased...especially in the past 10 or so years. But the past 4 or 5 years has been pretty bad.

Shoplifting is up. Bad debts are up. Hot checks are up. Broken promises are up.



It's more and more difficult to apply the Golden Rule in a business setting. :(

 
Yes, morals and honesty are in rare supply in this country. But they've always been.
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Completely disagree with this statement. The average person has both morals and honesty. It's the scumballs that get noticed for their poor, bad, or illegal behavior. If this is the way you truly feel, you might want to consider hanging with a different crowd.
 
Les,



I agree with you.



Most people are good and honest. Others just a little inconsiderate and misguided. The true scumbags are few and far between, and if you keep running into them you might want to figure out what the problem is (location, neighborhood, community, friends, part of the country you live, etc...)



TJR
 
Les, I meant the comments to be relative to the subject being discussed and the specific examples that started this thread. But put in the context of your reply, I agree with you, it was definitely overstated--my main point, though, is still that there hasn't been a decline in morals, so much as an increase in perception and resultant aggravation...



Thanks for setting me straight... ;)



And TJR--I'm inclined to disagree with your wife, and agree with you. Unfortunately, way too much of the world tends to agree with your wife, and assume that anything that happens which they don't agree with is an intentional slight directed at them, rather than even considering the possibility of it being a misunderstanding...



Then again, maybe she does agree with you, and both you and I just misunderstood her... :D
 
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Think that's bad. Try working retail. Than you get to see how many American assholes there really are.
 
Bill V,



Thanks. Furthermore, I use that way of thinking as the basis for conflict resolution.



In resolving a conflict I often start by trying to determine what possible misunderstanding or miscommunication has taken place that would explain why the other party rightfully thinks the way they do, or has acted the way they do.



That's why I read Bill's posts as I did. If you give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they actually do want to do the right thing, then resolving the conflict is typically much easier; definately easier than assuming they are a crook first.



Besides, it's a great feeling when you say to someone:



"Well, I think I understand how you could feel that (insert possible explanation for their behavior and their action), but I must say, I was expecting (insert your expectation)."



Typically, after that, the differences and the issues are out in the open and some resolution can be had. When that happens, its a great thing and sometimes you've earned respect along the way.



TJR
 
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The gal with the vacuum use it to vacuum her entire house, said it worked great.

Her husband refused to return it, I was cheated.

same with the tranformer, again I was cheated.
 
Bill Barber,



Thanks for replying.



I'm not saying you weren't cheated or don't have the right to feel cheated. I'm just saying that in both cases there could have been a misunderstanding.



However, given what you have said, I suspect in the vacuum case there was no misunderstanding and the husband might have been trying to pull a fast one. Around these parts, men still prefer to do business with men and not men's wives. I know that sounds "old school", but some of the older generation still feel that way (not saying it's right, just saying the attitude exists).



Still, maybe in the case of the transformer the person felt as if he should get something for the salvaged part. Either way, it's probably worth talking to him and understanding the disconnect, right? In that way you can be sure it doesn't happen again with someone else (maybe your problem was telling the guy what the part was worth and the implication that might have generated that he would get some credit for it).



I suspect you are trying to keep your "jack of all trades" business informal, but you might want to advertise or state up front the terms of a "satisfaction guarantee". For example; simply demanding money back for a service performed without being granted the ability to "make it right" is unreasonable (as is the case for the vacuum). A simple term like: "Your satisfaction guaranteed or we will make it right."...goes a long way.



(let the "Tommy Boy" quotes commence).



Good luck.



TJR
 
Thanks. Furthermore, I use that way of thinking as the basis for conflict resolution.



In resolving a conflict I often start by trying to determine what possible misunderstanding or miscommunication has taken place that would explain why the other party rightfully thinks the way they do, or has acted the way they do.



That's why I read Bill's posts as I did. If you give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they actually do want to do the right thing, then resolving the conflict is typically much easier; definately easier than assuming they are a crook first.
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More liberal BS designed to make everyone feel good and be a "winner". There's no good or bad, we're all good, we all get a gold star.



Sorry, but the world is mean, cold, and evil. There are a lot of people out there who have the personal motto "Hurray for me and, Screw you"
 
More liberal BS designed to make everyone feel good and be a "winner". There's no good or bad, we're all good, we all get a gold star.



Sorry, but the world is mean, cold, and evil.
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"More conservative BS..."
 
Gavin,



Actually, I'm somewhat personally offended by your comment above. I'm far from a liberal and I tend to try to not spout BS. I'm a card carrying Republican, with more moderate than conservative leanings...but definately not a liberal.



Yes, there are some out there that have the motto you suggest.



However, our perception defines our reality, and for me, the reality of the world that I live is no not mean, cold and evil.



Actually, most of the people I encounter on a daily basis are friendly, warm, and good.



That may just be where I live, though. But, I do travel. Last week I was in Montreal and Atlanta. Saw only friendly, warm people in both those places.



I've worked in LA and NYC. Yes, many in the larger cities take a defensive stance that has them focused mostly on themselves and their situation. But even then, that's a defense system, not people's true nature.



This is what I think, this is how I see the world.



That's not to say there isn't evil out there. There is. Just not really any more today than there has ever been, IMHO.



TJR
 
Unless Iknow someone, I assume they might be up to no good and ,f they aren't, then I'm pleasantly suprised.



I'm with Gavin, the percentage of sorry A**es is increasing...just Grandpa's opinion.



'07 ST:blink:
 
Gavin,



Actually, I'm somewhat personally offended by your comment above. I'm far from a liberal and I tend to try to not spout BS. I'm a card carrying Republican, with more moderate than conservative leanings...but definately not a liberal.



Yes, there are some out there that have the motto you suggest.



However, our perception defines our reality, and for me, the reality of the world that I live is no not mean, cold and evil.



Actually, most of the people I encounter on a daily basis are friendly, warm, and good.



That may just be where I live, though. But, I do travel. Last week I was in Montreal and Atlanta. Saw only friendly, warm people in both those places.



I've worked in LA and NYC. Yes, many in the larger cities take a defensive stance that has them focused mostly on themselves and their situation. But even then, that's a defense system, not people's true nature.



This is what I think, this is how I see the world.



That's not to say there isn't evil out there. There is. Just not really any more today than there has ever been, IMHO.



TJR
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TJR, you need to keep in mind that the standard knee-jerk reaction for many conservatives (and note that I said "many"--not "all", and definitely not even "most") is to label any statement they don't immediately agree with as 'liberal', simply so they don't have to actually think about what was said, or why their initial reaction was disagreement, or, most importantly, whether that reaction has any merit. It's a defense mechanism to protect their conservative viewpoints from ever undergoing any rational, logical evaluation. I wouldn't get offended by it too much--it's simply what they do.
 
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you need to keep in mind that the standard knee-jerk reaction for many conservatives (and note that I said "many"--not "all", and definitely not even "most") is to label any statement they don't immediately agree with as 'liberal', simply so they don't have to actually think about what was said, or why their initial reaction was disagreement, or, most importantly, whether that reaction has any merit. It's a defense mechanism to protect their conservative viewpoints from ever undergoing any rational, logical evaluation. I wouldn't get offended by it too much--it's simply what they do.
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Hmmm, in my parts (Bay Area), it's quite the opposite . . .
 
I am Canadian so perhaps I have no right to comment on the state of your magnificent country. I do know what happens south of our border also happens here. I do say though that I love the USA.



I joined the police service in 1977 and since that time have seen man's stupidity in every possible way. I feel that the major change in society, here and in your country, is a total lack of respect.

My father was a long service RSM in the Queens Own Cameron Highlanders and he had a saying that served me well. "only two things influence the behaviour of people, respect or fear and those two are one in the same"

What he was saying is that without respect or fear of consequences, mankind will not follow the rules, any rules.



The problem is that respect is not taught or encouraged in most levels of society. Kids are not taught respect for others, themselves, authority, parents, government or God. They do not fear the consequences because the consequences of their actions are minimal. After all, parents will lie to cover up for them. The same parents who cheat on each other, on their taxes, break driving laws, use foul language and demean each other and their children.



Not only children lack respect however. Its an epidemic that permeates every level of society. I know policeman who lie under oath because "I know he did it". I know lawyers who cheat, doctors who make insurance claims for tests not done. Businessmen who routinely falsify expense reports and clergy who have abused young children. Lack of respect crosses borders, races, religions, education and classes. It knows no bounds.



Why have these seemingly good, honest people committed these acts. Lack of respect for themselves, victims and society. And a lack of fear of the consequences of breaking the "Golden Rule."



Please keep in mind this is only my opinion and I am not looking for a fight. I respect you and your opinion, please respect mine.



BTW, I said I knew these people NOT that they are friends.



Gerry
 
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Why have these seemingly good, honest people committed these acts. Lack of respect for themselves, victims and society. And a lack of fear of the consequences of breaking the "Golden Rule."
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+ 1 on Gerrys rant
 
Gerry Mac,



My nephew is spending 2 months in jail awaiting a court hearing. He is likely to spend another two months after that. He is just over 18. Just after his 18th birthday, he and some other of his highschool friends vandalized their high school (spraypainted graffiti on the outside walls).



They got caught, my nephew and about 3 or 4 others. They all got hauled into jail, and all the other kids parents posted bail that night and paid a restitution fine (about $1,800) in order to pay to have the spray paint cleaned up.



My sister wouldn't bail out her son (my nephew). Not that evening; not the next day; not a week later. After 10 days the judge and DA released my nephew. My sister said she wasn't going to bail him out. She also wasn't going to pay the $1800 fine for him.



So, instead, my nephew had to set up a payment plan. $110/month. If he missed a payment he would be back in jail.



Well, he missed a couple of payments like the bonehead that he can be. He did so without letting his mom know. He got scared and got ready to flee the state (this whole time he wasn't living with my sister). So, not wanting her son to be a fugitive she called the DA and told him they better pick him up.



So, he is back in jail. Will likely be in jail a total of 4 months before released, and he now owes the $1,800 in full. My sister is going to cash out a savings bond she has had for some time to pay the lump sum due now to avoid a 1 year sentence.



She is trying to teach him a lesson. She is trying to teach him respect. She is trying to teach him that things have consequences.



It's a tough lesson though, because all of his friends got out the "easy way", with nothing on them. There parents helped them make the whole thing go away.



My nephew has had his problems, but hopefully my sis is doing the right thing. Even she questions if she is.



TJR
 
Well, when they have to go outside the neighborhood next time to get something fixed and they have to pay 2x what you would have they will understand the err of their ways."





 

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