CT tragedy

[Brett Hartwig]

I'm not pro-gun nor am I anti-gun. I am a father of two little girls. And I say- if you are a principal in any school in this country and you don't have a handgun stashed away in your desk or in a filing cabinet in your office that only you know about, you should be F*&^ing fired on the spot! That's all I have to say about that. Good night.

 

[H D]

Only one post on this one.



I pray for those affected. Mental health is the unspoken issue here but only one thing is a hot button issue that can be used for political pusposes.

 

[EddieS'04]

Gods' peace and blessings for all affected. This is so sadening.



As what freeport said. I have no problem with having some of the willing staff. To secretly conceal carry. No one is to know except those that choose it, and campus police.

It wont stop it, Im sure. I myself am one that would be willing to put my life on the line. To stop it, or end it before such a large massacre. If I was staff.



May I add. I expect proficiency and physcological testing first. To be allowed to conceal carry, in a school.

 

[Robert Howell]

A very sad event and unfortunately an early Christmas gift for the gun grabbers. This is the crisis they have been waiting for. Gun control bills are already drafted, hell might be 4 years old already. Obama has nothing to lose now, second term, the perfect event and can blame the pain of the victims on the Republicans if they oppose the bill from going trough.



Sad all of those children and families become political fodder.

 

[Richard L]

I believe in our right to bear arms and even own 3 handguns for protection and I have a Texas Concealed Carry License. I agree with Eddie that we need more psychological testing in addition to police background checks not only for Concealed Carry licenses but for all gun purchases.



The original right to bear arms was adapted by our founding fathers for several reasons. One was that most Americans lived in rural areas and had to hunt for food. The second part was that it was the armed citizens who helped defeat the British and win our independence. So it is a sort of deterent to a tyrannical government.



To put things in perspective, the weapons of that time were single shot muzzle loaders that even the most proficient shooter could only fire about 3 rounds per minute. Today's modern assault rifles can easily spit out 3 rounds a second, or as fast as you can pull the trigger, and with 20 or more rounds in the magazine, creates some awesome fire power. Far more fire power than needed to take down a deer or to protect your family from an intruder.



Having said that, I find no valid reason for any American to own an assault rifle. In fact I would question the psychological make up of anyone who would want to purchase that kind of weapon. Assault weapons are not designed for hunters, unless you are hunting humans and want to kill a lot of them very quickly...That's called War!



I would favor a ban on civilians purchasing Assault Rifles or any semi-automatic rifle or handgun with a magazine capable of holding more than 6 rounds. Even then, there should be a way to slow down the rate of fire by making reloading of the magazine into the weapon more labor intensive or have more safety interlock covers and latches that require more time to install the magazine.



The main problem with this solution is that there a hundreds of thousands of these high fire power weapons already in the hands of American citizens....and we don't know the psychological make up of those people....all we would accomplish is to disarm the honest citizens and leave the criminals and mentally unstable people with these weapons of mass destruction!



....Rich

 

[EddieS'04]

The main problem with this solution is that there a hundreds of thousands of these high fire power weapons already in the hands of American citizens....and we don't know the psychological make up of those people....all we would accomplish is to disarm the honest citizens and leave the criminals and mentally unstable people with these weapons of mass destruction!

Rich, thats the problem the good citizens of england are dealing with now. There are untold good citizens going to prison. While the criminal they protected themselves from walked. In some cases sued the the good guy.

Read an article just 2 months ago. As where a man in a rural area shot one of the burgulars. That the police know had broke into the mans house for the 3rd time. The home owner was convicted. The burgular survived and walked.

 

[Kyle Maguire]

for as long as i can remember my family and i have never had any guns except my dads .45 acp pistol for trips to the city and thug life areas. Just last christmas my father and i bought a bushmaster m4a3 patrolmans carbine same type this man killed these children with. since then we have purchased many more firearms. my father and i only use these weapons for shooting targets and fun family occasions, never harm. several houses where i live were broken into and one man was killed. although we are lucky so far you can never be unprepared, which is why along with these firearms, we bought a german shephard and has just lost all his baby teeth and his adults are just coming in, once they come in hes going to search and rescue training as well as intruder/family protection training. my point of the story is that although assault rifles arent necessary in everyday life, for the millions of Americans out there who own them and respect the rules and is smart with their weapons, they deserve them. I'm pro-gun myself but will never ever harm or kill another soul unless a true threat is present. i would go-along with a back ground check that includes mental illness or any sign of "crazy".

 

[OLE442]

burgular survived

There's your problem in the story.

 

[Robert Thomas]

Some things to consider:



With only slight judgment requirement no federal laws prohibit the personal sale of weapons, (handguns, shotguns, and rifles) or requires any paperwork to be filed.



Handguns are considered defensive weapons. In most cases the damage done to a body by one of these weapons is restricted to the size of the bullet.



Rifles are considered offensive weapons. In most cases the damage done to the body by one of these weapons is compounded by the speed of the bullet. Any rifle that shoots a bullet at over 1500 FP cause damage to the body the size of the bullet and also causes hydrostatic shock. Making the wound much larger.



It takes about 2000 round shot to become proficient in any weapon. This is not to say that you can't pick up a gun and cause a lots of damage without any prior knowledge. But, someone with proficiency in any weapon can cause more damage with a low capacity handgun with extra magazines that someone with a legal high capacity assault rifle, given a short range.



The size of the bullet is not as important as the accuracy of the bullet.



One can go to a local gun store or swap meet and buy a $50 to $150 part with a serial number. From this you can build a fully functional assault rifle with parts over the Internet.



From my view if ever put in a situation such as the one described. At 35 to 20 yards I would much rather see a assault rifle or a handgun that a shotgun loaded with number 4 buck.



This is very, very sad occurrence. Sickening is the only response I can offer. Some gun laws can be change. security can be improved and stricter laws imposed. Can these occurrences be stopped. Doubtful. This attack could have been performed by a knife, given the time and group attacked.

 

[scott degroot]

Does anyone else think that the excessive media coverage these shootings are given helps to influence would be shooters to carry on with their plans?

 

[EddieS'04]

Does anyone else think that the excessive media coverage these shootings are given helps to influence would be shooters to carry on with their plans?

Scott, I have thought the same. It could create that copy cat. To go thru with it.

 

[Richard L]

l1tech,

I also agree that the excessive media coverage generates a lot of copy cat shootings just to up the ante on the the number of people they can kill.



Redfish....When do you expect or anticipate that you will be in a shoot out that requires you to have an assault rifle. The only condition would be if you were defending yourself from another human. The main difference between an Assault Rifle and just any run of the mill siemi-automatic rifle is size, weight and the amount of non-stop round that can be fired before reloading. I have no objection to the Assault Rifle styling, size, and light weight...just reduce the magazine size to 6 or less rounds and make them so that you cannot reload another 20 round magazine in less than a second. By slowing the rate of fire and the reloading time you are giving some people a chance to escape.



If you only use the weapon for target shooting, you don't need a 20 or 30 round magazine. If you are hunting deer, the deer will not shoot back and you don't need a 20 or 30 round magazine. You only need a 20 or 30 round magazine why you need a high rate of fire against other humans who are shooting at you.



The criminals choice of weapon is a handgun because they are more easily concealed, but the are usually after money and they will strike when the opportunity is right....They are probably not going to try to rob you if you are carrying an Assault Rifle....They will likely cross the street to get away from you. Only psychos, doomsday survivalist, and Rambo-wana-be's want Assault Rifles because they are designed to kill a lot of people very fast.



There is no rational scenario or logical reason that I can imagine that would require a citizen to own an Assault Rifle. You cannot carry an Assault rifle into the movie theater to watch Batman because you want to be able to defend yourself against some psycho who might burst into the theater and start shooting everybody..They would think you were the psycho.



...Rich

 

[Robert Howell]

Number 1 body count for killing school children in the US had no guns involved.



It is very poor problem solving to lay blame on the tool.

 

[Robert Thomas]

Rich,



I don't really agree with your analysis that everyone who owns a rifle on a (Assault Rifle Frame) is a

psychos, doomsday survivalist, and Rambo-wana-be's

. I can think of a number of reasonable conditions under which one might consider ownership of a platform which is semi-automatic. The term (Assault Rifle) is part of the problem, if one truly thinks any firearm is a (Assault Weapon) then they may fall under your classification.



Reducing the number of rounds that can be held in a weapon is reasonable. Hunters already operate under these regulations. These regulations were already in effect for handguns in the past. I they let those regulation expire in the last couple of years. In reality someone who is proficient is not going to loose over a couple of seconds at the most reloading. Also large capacity magazines have a greater tendencies to jam than lower capacity ones. The main advantage in large capacity magizines is not having the additional weight to carry.



One additional thing that could be done is increase the length of the barrels on semi auto rifles from 16 inches to 20 inches making them harder to conceal and handle. But, anyone with intent and a hack aw can fix that.



While I carried and taught the use of a number of different types of these weapons for 28 years, I see no use for any weapon now other the shoot over my shoulder while fleeing.

 

[Mike Dziubina]

Newtown is right down the road from me. In fact my ambulance corps sent 2 ambulances that horrific day. Needless to say, we are devastated in this area, much as the rest of the country is. All I can say is that my prayers are with those whom lost their lives, their families, and friends. I just hope those now gone did not suffer nor feel much pain.



I am a pro gunner myself and own multiple firearms and I really despise the anti-gun talk that has been sensationalized by the media, political figures, and by so many more. Not simply for the fact that I do not agree with gun bans, control, etc...but I feel the only worry at this point should be the well being of the families whom have suffered loss, the first responders (LEO's, EMS, and Fire) and for those poor children who lived through, but witnessed first hand the tragedy that unfolded. IMO, that should be our ONLY focus at this point and time. These many people will be affected for variable lengths of time, some short term, others longer, and for some -maybe a lifetime. I would know, I have suffered through PTSD myself. The mental anguish, and possibly the physical effects will be difficult for not only the children, but their families. We NEED to address this, and sensationalize these priorities before the right time has passed.



God bless those affected by these horrific events, and may he hold their hands through this unfathomably difficult time.



Mike

 

[Richard L]

Redfish,

I completely disagree with your analysis of Assault Rifles. They are not just another semi-automatic rifle. They are for the most part, military grade weapons designed for high rate of fire with large interchangeable magazines to maintain that high rate of fire. Their smaller size and lighter weight are for use in confined areas and easily carried...not for concealment...For concealment a handgun is a far better choice.



You said that you can think of several scenarios where someone might want to own a semi-automatic rifle....I can too. but there is a bit more difference between a semi-automatic rifle and weapons that fall in the category of Assault Rifles....and for civilian use, it has nothing to do with barrel length or weight. So what are those reasonable scenarios that you can think of where only an Assault rifle with interchangeable 20 round magazines would work, and could not be accomplished with that same rifle limited to a 6 round magazine.



Also, the number of rounds that the magazine holds has nothing to do with jams...Magazine feed jams are primarily caused by poor quality magazines. Many of these high capacity magazines are cheaply made and are prone to cause malfunctions. Often, slightly bending the tabs at the top of the magazine into proper alignment and removing any burrs eliminates the magazine feed problems. The military discovered that years ago with the M16...cheap, poorly made magazines caused a lot of magazine related jams even after they corrected the problems with the jams caused by the bolt not being chrome plated.



I have 4 magazines for my Bersa Thunder and only one consistently causes jamming problems (the cheapest one) while I have never encounter any jams with the other magazines....all using the same ammo.



Assault weapons are the weapons of choice for mass murderers....the simple fact that you can have 20-30 rounds to fire by just pulling the trigger before you need to reload, and inserting another magazine only takes a second or two.



I propose that all weapons including rifles and handguns be limited to no more than a 6 round magazine. Then to further reduce the fire power, make the magazine changing procedure harder to remove and insert by possibly adding interlocking covers to the magazine compartment so that the cover must be manually removed to removed the spend magazine, and the cover must be installed after the new magazine has been inserted before the weapons will fire. The cover slows the reloading process as well as prevents larger magazines from being inserted since the cover cannot be installed with a larger magazine. If the cover cannot be installed, the weapons will be in Safe mode and cannot be fired.



The current problem when one of these tragedies happens, is that when there is any talk about stronger gun laws, the gun shops are swamped with people buying the guns and ammo That just puts more of these Assault type weapons in the hands of more loose nuts who think they cannot protect themselves from a home intruder without having an Assault rifle and 5000 rounds of ammo.



To prevent these runs to the gun shops, I personally would like to see Obama, put an immediate 90 day freeze on the sale of all semi-automatic weapons with magazines that hold more than 6 rounds, and also freeze the sale of all magazines and speed-loaders that hold more than 6 rounds. I would also like to see some kind of law related to stockpiling of certain types of ammo and limiting sales to no more than 50 rounds per day. The 90 day freeze would allow some time for lawmakers to develop a strategy to deal with these kinds of weapons.



...Rich

 

[Robert Thomas]

Rich,

So what are those reasonable scenarios that you can think of where only an Assault rifle with interchangeable 20 round magazines would work, and could not be accomplished with that same rifle limited to a 6 round magazine.

I don't believe I said that a 20 round magazine was necessary, I agreed with you that a 6 round regulation was reasonable.

the number of rounds that the magazine holds has nothing to do with jams

When you start stacking a large amount of rounds the spring tension becomes different as they are delivered.

Assault weapons are the weapons of choice for mass murderers

I would have to go with explosives

The 90 day freeze would allow some time for lawmakers to develop a strategy to deal with these kinds of weapons.

Are you talking about Congress and the Senate? :bwahaha:



Under your proposals why not just limit weapons to 6 rounds. You buy a weapon that has six rounds in it. After the sixth is fired it self destructs. I always thought that if everyone on a plane was given a one round gun when they got on. You would never have another hijacking. Maybe a few in flight problems tho.

 

[Richard L]

Redfish,

I don't believe I said that a 20 round magazine was necessary, I agreed with you that a 6 round regulation was reasonable.

And that is the main difference in what people call Assault rifles.

When you start stacking a large amount of rounds the spring tension becomes different as they are delivered

A well made magazine does not cause misfeeds. Even as recently in the past few years troops in Afghanistan were having problems and complaining about the reliability of government issued magazines causing feed jams. Many soldier were purchasing their own magazines from quality manufacturers in the US that did not have feed jam problems. After a period of denial, the military has figured out that the problem was with the regular magazines and are supposed to be issuing new, better magazines from a different manufacturer

I would have to go with explosives

Military grade explosives are banned from being in the possession of civilians....why not Assault weapons of mass destruction? There are a lot of Military grade weapons that citizens are banned from owning, including grenades, mines, and assorted anti-tank and anti-aircraft rocket launchers.

Are you talking about Congress and the Senate?

Yes, that's exactly who I am talking about. If Obama puts in an immediate, temporary ban on the sale of Assault weapons or anything that can hold more than 6 rounds, that would give congress 90 days to come up with reasonable legislation. If the Congress and the Senate cannot write a reasonable effective law to deal with Assault weapons by the end of the 90 day, it automatically extends the ban for another 90 day or until they come up with a bill that at least solves some of the issues associated with Assault type weapons.

Under your proposals why not just limit weapons to 6 rounds. You buy a weapon that has six rounds in it. After the sixth is fired it self destructs.

Limiting all weapons to 6 rounds is exactly what I am proposing, but we still need to slow down the speed of reloading to perhaps 15-30 seconds for a magazine change. Obviously you are trying to be humorous about the self-destructing weapon...so I will not even respond to that point, but I will chuckle a bit...:grin:



...Rich

 

[Robert Thomas]

Rich,



That's why I try to avoid the term Assault Rifle.



Military standards are much different that what is being sold on most of the parts.



All the explosive components you need can be located at Home Depot



You have a lots more confidence in Congress and the Senate than I do.



What you are proposing will slow down a legal citizen, not someone bent on causing damage.



Yes, it was a attempt at humor on a subject that doesn't justify it. But, thats just me.

 

[EddieS'04]

Just my 2 cents. I dont want a 6 round mag for a rifle. A 10 or 12 ok. I have no problem with light weight assault style rifles. I do wonder why some want a 20 to 30 round mag for civilian use. Though it is nice not to constantly load up. When target plinking.



I truely believe there is a thought, in this country. Of being afraid of the fedral gov., for some. I think back to my time in 'Nam. I had missions as to where, I carried the enemys weapons. Depending on the circumstance. I could used captured ammo if needed. There fore in a civil war ammo is avaiable. Or if I wasnt supposed to be there. If lost a weapon it wasnt US made. That included my knife, side arm and wrist watch.



I have one pistol that holds 14. I never put more than 6+1 in it, at home. That is enough for personal protection.



There again. The real problem is the person. If they are warped enough to mass destruct. They will arm themselve to the hilt. So they can still take out many. Nature of the beast when it comes to a mental condition. The nut cases' that will do this may even make homemade bombs. I cant see an arms limit, changing any thing, JMHO.......



Im more for pyscohlogic testing. I question this mother leaving her weapons available. Knowing her sons mental condition. That is where this incident started.



I live alone. All but one pistol is locked in a safe. My dads' 40 year old shotgun is locked to a stud on the wall.



Just saying, some things start at home.