Component Speakers

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Gary Spann

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I have read several posts about component speakers but I do have a question. Do you need to put components in the front and rear placements to make them effective? Also, if I get components do I also need a sub? I am admittedly ignorant when it comes to audio stuff. I have also read on here about folks installing the soundproofing. Good idea?
 
So-called "component speakers" are just raw drivers without any enclosures, crossovers or other components needed to make a complete car stereo. If you're "ignorant" as you say on the general subject, save your pennies and have a competent installer put in a system that was designed to work specifically with your ST. It'll sound better, and you'll save yourself from pulling out large clumps of hair in frustration.



If your ride makes odd and distracting noises, you might consider replacing at least some of the factory sound deadening materials with aftermarket stuff. If not, save your money. Sound "proofing" is like bullet "proofing". It doesn't really exist. The more you're willing to pay, the quieter you can get. You need to decide what's acceptable and affordable.

 
Thanks. I should caveat "ignorant" with what type I should install. I have faith in my abilities to install such components I just am unsure of the setup. I like the look of components and I understand the concept of separating the two speakers but my real question is do people put components in the front and the back or just the front etc.



I like the sound deadening idea a lot. I have always thought the ST had a lot of outside noise. I saw the sound deadening tutorial and I really think that is the way to go. My old truck does make some noise and general road noise is distracting enough.
 
Gary, components is usually a pairing of regular speakers with a tweeter if you go with a set.



We dont have any location for a tweeter in our trucks unless we cut the space we need and modify for it.



However the pairing of having tweeters allows for more range of sound... especially in the high side...



and a sub is just for low end, bass...



if you get some good 2way or 3 way speakers and power them with a amp you wont miss a sub and itll look factory.



right now i have infinity kappas with an alpine amp powering them to get much better bass... ive had people ask me wheres my sub... i dont have one
 
Good deal. My next question was going to be about the sub. I have seen the tweeter mounted above the mirror control in the front on some STs. I really like that look. I guess I will go with components up front and quality 2 or 3 ways in in the back. Now I need to know which ones LOL. Maybe experiment later. I had been looking at the sub enclosures from Hatchbox but I wasn't going down that road until later.



I think Dynamat my doors first and something other than factory speakers in the doors with an amp.



I have read mixed reviews about the Kappas. Sounds like they work great for you.

 
Gary,



I did a TON of research :eek:nline: for my ST before I knew what to go with, so don't feel bad.



I decided to go with components on both the front and the rear doors. (MB Quart 6.5" reference line) with the crossovers under the front seats. I did have to cut out the hole for the tweeters though. You don't necessarily have to go with compenents in the back unless you are really picky (like I was). For an amp I have a 70x4 RMS Watt unit driving the speakers.



As for a sub, I didnt want to give up any normal cab space, so I had a custom box with a 12" Pioneer Premier flat sub under the right passenger seat. Looks small, but it will fit fine. It all depends on how much cash you want to spend. I bought most of my stuff online, so I would say I ended up putting about 1100 into a pretty good sounding system. (I already had a good Alpine deck).



There are some pics in my library if you want to see what it looks like.



Conrad
 
Thanks Conrad. Since I want a sub eventually, would a 5 channel amp be a good choice since I want to power the 4 door speaker sets and a sub? I would rather buy the amp with everything I need instead of two amps later. I was looking at the shallow mount Pioneer subs and a Hatchbox box for behind my seat. I don't mind removing the plastic behind the seat but I don't want to lose the ability to lay the seats flat.
 
Thanks Conrad. Since I want a sub eventually, would a 5 channel amp be a good choice since I want to power the 4 door speaker sets and a sub? I would rather buy the amp with everything I need instead of two amps later. I was looking at the shallow mount Pioneer subs and a Hatchbox box for behind my seat. I don't mind removing the plastic behind the seat but I don't want to lose the ability to lay the seats flat.
 
Thanks. I should caveat "ignorant" with what type I should install. I have faith in my abilities to install such components I just am unsure of the setup. I like the look of components and I understand the concept of separating the two speakers but my real question is do people put components in the front and the back or just the front etc.

I put "ignorant" in quotes because I didn't think you were really ignorant, just less informed than others.



It should be noted that all high fidelity loudspeaker systems use two or more sets of drivers to reproduce the different frequency ranges. Assembling these components so that they sound really good is a challenging art/science with regular loudspeakers. In a car, where it's not always possible to group the different range drivers as close together as is optimal the task is extra challenging.



If looks are more important to you than sound, then you don't need to put much effort into choosing a system to suit your needs. But if you do want great sound, you need to understand that placing the different drivers in different places is a compromise to the shape of the car, and will never sound as good as integrated loudspeakers. I had a pair of mini bookshelf speakers in one car, on the rear package shelf. They were 2-way acoustic suspension home speakers that were designed to be used with a subwoofer. I built a subwoofer to match, and the sound was incredible--far better than any car stereo I've heard since. Why? Mainly because I chose good stereo imaging over convenient packaging. Not everybody wants a pair of box speakers in their rear window.

 
I wouldn't waste the money on components in the rear. They are directional, and the sound stage should be up front anyways.



As far as 1 vs 2 amps, its going to depend on how much power you want to give the sub. Generally 5 channel amps don't put out a ton of power, for a small system it will be fine, and save you some space.



I've always like alpine for good mid range price and performance.
 
Gotcha. I knew what you meant Mustang. Ignorance is nothing more than a lack of knowledge anyway ;). I have read that the placement of component speakers are important and need to be so far apart and face the correct locations etc. This is all good information for me. Hopefully by asking the right questions and getting the right feedback I can prevent any wasted purchases. Sound quality is certainly more important to me but I do like the component speakers.



I want to do all of this myself if for no other reason than to get the experience. But like you said, the correct pieces are the key. Would you suggest a separate amp for a sub then? I like the idea of a single amp for everything if that is feasible. I don't know if I want to go all out with two subs but if I do I imagine it would drive the need for a separate amp just for the subs?



I appreciate everyone's inputs. It truly helps me narrow down what I need before I go out and start buying parts.
 
JD: Thanks. I am not looking to shatter windows. I want a system that puts out quality sound over volume. My kids will get a kick out feeling a little thump in the back seat though!
 
Oh yea on the sound deadening thing, if you search there are posts from a few years back when I did my whole truck. I then tested before and after with a db meter to verify results. While they were good, they weren't great.



I did a layer on the whole floor, all the doors and and roof. The doors helped the sound quality a little but didn't do much in terms of ride volume. The floor helped some, and the roof was most noticeable when it rained.. there wasn't as much noise from coming though in storms :p



If I recall I only got about a 1db loss which is decent but not amazing. It was a lot of work though.
 
I want to do all of this myself if for no other reason than to get the experience. But like you said, the correct pieces are the key. Would you suggest a separate amp for a sub then? I like the idea of a single amp for everything if that is feasible. I don't know if I want to go all out with two subs but if I do I imagine it would drive the need for a separate amp just for the subs?

I haven't kept up with automotive power amps, but in general I'd always use a separate amp for the sub(s). Although it's not impossible to design a chassis that has enough power supply capacity, amplifier power and cooling for everything, it's easier to break it down into smaller components. Bass draws a completely different power profile than the higher frequencies. It's better to keep the power supply path for the bass separate. Another good reason to use a separate sub amp is so that if you find that the one you have for the mains or the sub(s) isn't powerful enough, you only have to change the affected part.



On the subject of power, you want enough power to listen at a reasonable level without any audible distortion. Going into distortion sounds bad, and can damage your ears and your speakers. You can replace your speakers, but not your ears! Sound engineers always want more available power, not to be louder, but to be cleaner. BTW the specs are meaningless in most cases. Back when I installed car stereos, there were laws regulating Wattage and distortion specs. Now they can and do lie outright. So be sure to audition the amp before you buy it.

 
5 channel amps have two separate circuits so the 4 channel part is class A or AB and the sub channel is generally class D. Last time I checked the larger 5 channel amps had 4x50 and 1x300 which isn't bad, but sure isn't a ton either. The cooling and power supply won't be an issue as long as large enough wire is run to power it, and a good ground is used.
 
Class A? That would have your 5-channel amp drawing over 200 Watts at all times! That would require a mighty stout alternator and wiring, not to mention the cooling requirements...



"4x50" and "1x300" what? I'm mildly amused that you don't even attempt to correlate the numbers with anything relevant, like the Watt. That drives home my previous point about meaningless specs. 50 Watts at 500% distortion isn't going to sound good at all.



Reputable companies will list power specs like this:



"50 Watts per channel, with all channels driven by a 1 kHz sine wave, with no more than 0.05% THD+N"



What the above means is that the amplifier will deliver an honest, clean 50W to each speaker regardless of whether the program content is only on the left rear channel, or all channels simultaneously. That's a spec that has meaning. That's a spec designed by the Institute of High Fidelity to give specs like that meaning.



Accepting non-IHF numbers is like claiming your engine makes so much horsepower, but not having a single dyno slip to prove it. Caveat emptor!

 
With that, this is the amp I was looking at. I know you can explain its features better than I can:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_20610ZX705/Kicker-10ZX700-5.html?tp=14

 
I would go with a passive crossover component front stage. I would go with coaxials in the rear fill. I would do a single 12 inch sub and run it at 300w rms. I would run the front stage with at least 75w rms per channel.



Face the tweets directly toward you.



Sound deaden the doorsor you will hear the cross over box rattle from the midbass output in the door speakers.
 
Hey Guys....I was wondering if any of you with a newer sport trac 2009,2010,how did you hook up the amp to the factory head unit?? I have a 2010 with the single cd and with sync. I like the sync features and want to keep it. So far i have put in a set of Polk DB 6.5" seperates up front and a pair of Polk DB 6x8 coax in the rear...For a sub I am planing a shallow mount pioneer box and sub right behind the rear seat. I am looking at the Kicker 10zx755.5 5 channel amp as an amp.
 
With that, this is the amp I was looking at. I know you can explain its features better than I can:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_20610ZX705/Kicker-10ZX700-5.html?tp=14

The first thing to notice is the "CEA-2006 Compliant" statement. CEA-2006 isn't nearly as good as the IHF testing criteria, but is good enough for a non-audiophile car stereo. It's a WHOLE LOT better than numbers that have no relation to reality, that's for sure!



The 20-20,000Hz frequency range is the same as the IHF standard, which is good.



"RMS" stands for root mean square, which is the actual power level. Cheats often use other ways to measure power (e.g. "peak power") that are designed to give the largest numbers, but you'd never see anything close to those numbers while playing music. The power is measured at 1% distortion, which is a lot for modern audio equipment. However it's roughly as much as the finest loudspeakers produce, and in a running car it's probably barely noticeable. They measure at 4 Ohms, which seems to be cheating a little. The standard for decades has been 8 Ohms for consumer grade loudspeakers. Professional sound reinforcement systems sometimes run 2, 4 or more 8 ohm drivers in parallel, giving a nominal impedance of 4, 2 and even 1 Ohm, and pro sound reinforcement power amplifiers are designed to be most efficient at these lower impedances. But pro sound has no bearing on a car stereo!



The ideal power amplifier produces twice as much power when you cut the load impedance in half. So a 100W @ 8 Ohm amp would make 200W @ 4 Ohms, 400W @ 2 Ohms and so on. And in fact, many pro amps come pretty close to doing that. When an amp can't do that, it's a clue that the power supply has less capacity than those with greater power multiplication. For all practical purposes, this is a non-issue as long as you operate within the linear range of the amplifier.



I don't know why the Kicker amp is rated at 4 and 2 Ohms. I'd think that since it's for use in cars, where space is limited and weight is an issue, they'd want to use higher impedance speakers, which require less (thinner) wire. For best sound quality, I advise bumping up the speaker wire thickness when using this amp. 12AWG (stranded) minimum at 4 Ohms.



Having the (presumably line level) crossover circuitry built into the unit is convenient. So is having independently adjustable filters, provided you have some need to use different cutoff points. Unfortunately the rolloff rate for the low-pass filter is twice that of the high-pass filter. This mismatch is a bad sign. OTOH, since it's not a Hi-Fi unit, it may be tolerable. Still it's a sign of poor design.



Unless you're using a Kicker brand subwoofer that requires the bass boost to be set to anything but 0, I'd keep it at 0. Chances are that your car subwoofer will be incapable of reproducing down to 40Hz. Don't think that you can get something for nothing either. If you crank up the gain at 40 Hz, the subwoofer will go nonlinear and produce high order harmonics in the midrange, causing that ricey mid-bass pop-pop-pop instead of a good solid bass note.



The "differential-balanced inputs eliminate noise from your vehicle's electrical system" claim is BS. Those are consumer grade RCA jacks, which are unbalanced. Total BS. Shouldn't be a problem though, as long as you use good quality line level interconnects. Still...why lie?



When it comes to powering the unit, I'd skip on the Kicker brand wires, and buy standard automotive large-stranded power cable. They recommend 4AWG power cable; I'd use 2AWG cable provided there's room to run it. In fact, I'd eschew the chassis ground, and run a pair of wires (one red, one black) straight to the battery terminals. You'll need special terminators to fit into the power-in plugs. Putting raw stranded wire in a screw-down part like that is a bad idea. You can get the wire and the terminators at Home Depot or a boat or RV shop. They're used for power inverters, which use similar plugs. It takes a special tool to crimp on the ends, so try to have that done where you buy them.



I see that the offer includes a free 1F capacitor. The thing about these booster caps is that the only way they can work is if you have insufficient power wiring between the battery and the amp. I would do the wiring right in the first place, and trade the cap to a friend for something else.

 
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