scott degroot
Well-Known Member
So what do you do when they replace the DPFE sensor and it doesn't fix your problem?
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Rant - Dealer Service Diagnostic Fees
- Thread starter Thomas Rogers
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So what do you do when they replace the DPFE sensor and it doesn't fix your problem?
scott degroot
Well-Known Member
TJR
Didn't mean to compare my story to yours..was just recounting the days happenings.
Had another one a few days back, cust came in with a 2002 Denali wanting a price on catalytic converters. He had done a bunch of reading on forums, as much of us do, and was positive that the converters were his problem. Finally talked him into paying for a diag charge as long as the problem wasn't the converters. i drove the truck, pulled it in and immediately hooked up a fuel pressure gauge. He was confused that I didn't even plug a scanner in or do a back pressure test on the exhaust. After showing him that his fuel pressure was off 20 psi low he just sat in amazement and couldn't believe that he was wrong after doing more than a month of research on internet forums..saved him a ton of money and now I have a customer that will never question me again. Had we just replaced his converters and the problem remained he would have never of came back but would have bad things to say about us I'm sure. Nothing against you guys here but it has been my experience that the customer is wrong when it comes to diagnosing their vehicles ALOT more than they are right.
Didn't mean to compare my story to yours..was just recounting the days happenings.
Had another one a few days back, cust came in with a 2002 Denali wanting a price on catalytic converters. He had done a bunch of reading on forums, as much of us do, and was positive that the converters were his problem. Finally talked him into paying for a diag charge as long as the problem wasn't the converters. i drove the truck, pulled it in and immediately hooked up a fuel pressure gauge. He was confused that I didn't even plug a scanner in or do a back pressure test on the exhaust. After showing him that his fuel pressure was off 20 psi low he just sat in amazement and couldn't believe that he was wrong after doing more than a month of research on internet forums..saved him a ton of money and now I have a customer that will never question me again. Had we just replaced his converters and the problem remained he would have never of came back but would have bad things to say about us I'm sure. Nothing against you guys here but it has been my experience that the customer is wrong when it comes to diagnosing their vehicles ALOT more than they are right.
If that was not the problem then I would pay to get it diagnosed. But, the DPFE sensor would have fixed the problem.
Tom
Jeff Jolley
Well-Known Member
TJR, you are the customer that we describe as never being happy with anything that is done. Don't feel bad though you're not alone.
You are willing to pay a reasonable price for service but you want to decide what is resonable... can you please do us a favor since you've got reasonable figured out.
Can you call and let the power company know what a reasonable charge is for our monthly bill?
While you're at it we need you to contact the phone company and straighten them out also.
Don't forget the water and sewer guys, wouldn't want them to feel left out, that'd be unreasonable.
The bank that has the morgage on our property and equipment give them a call too... ok
I'm sure the White House phone number is listed in a phone book somewhere so dial "0" you should be able to get the extensions for... EPA, Social Security, IRS (these guys may be in a different building) and they may also be able to put you in touch with OSHA. Let them know what reasonable is, I think they may be confused.
You'll also need to get hold of the State Capitol to inform them that they have unreasonable demands for insurances and taxes.
Department of Labor, ask these guys to review the policies they have on wages and earnings, Drug testing and this unemployment junk... reasonable??
Hell all these specialty tools and parts, they are unreasonably priced also, so how about you buy them online then we'll just give you a price break on the job when you bring them in with you. Don't worry we'll have the mechanics wipe the tools down before you leave, no charge for that.
I think it is only reasonable that you give our mechanics a lift to the next training course that they are scheduled to attend. You know how unreasonable airlines are today.
We will cut our mechanics pay since they are really not generating any income for our shops while they are there I think that's reasonable don't you? I'm so glad we can agree on these things.
Per Diem, what is a resonable amout to give them for Per Diem? Is Per Diem reasonable?
Maybe they could stay at your house so we don't have to put them up in an unreasonably priced hotel.
Oh wait, We don't need to send them to these classes, you're gonna tell us what's wrong with the vehicle when you bring it in anyway, unreasonable to waste all that money isn't it?
One more thing, what is a reasonable amout to charge over cost to maintain our shops
I think, I may have to politely let you know that there is another shop a reasonable distance down the road.
You are willing to pay a reasonable price for service but you want to decide what is resonable... can you please do us a favor since you've got reasonable figured out.
Can you call and let the power company know what a reasonable charge is for our monthly bill?
While you're at it we need you to contact the phone company and straighten them out also.
Don't forget the water and sewer guys, wouldn't want them to feel left out, that'd be unreasonable.
The bank that has the morgage on our property and equipment give them a call too... ok
I'm sure the White House phone number is listed in a phone book somewhere so dial "0" you should be able to get the extensions for... EPA, Social Security, IRS (these guys may be in a different building) and they may also be able to put you in touch with OSHA. Let them know what reasonable is, I think they may be confused.
You'll also need to get hold of the State Capitol to inform them that they have unreasonable demands for insurances and taxes.
Department of Labor, ask these guys to review the policies they have on wages and earnings, Drug testing and this unemployment junk... reasonable??
Hell all these specialty tools and parts, they are unreasonably priced also, so how about you buy them online then we'll just give you a price break on the job when you bring them in with you. Don't worry we'll have the mechanics wipe the tools down before you leave, no charge for that.
I think it is only reasonable that you give our mechanics a lift to the next training course that they are scheduled to attend. You know how unreasonable airlines are today.
We will cut our mechanics pay since they are really not generating any income for our shops while they are there I think that's reasonable don't you? I'm so glad we can agree on these things.
Per Diem, what is a resonable amout to give them for Per Diem? Is Per Diem reasonable?
Maybe they could stay at your house so we don't have to put them up in an unreasonably priced hotel.
Oh wait, We don't need to send them to these classes, you're gonna tell us what's wrong with the vehicle when you bring it in anyway, unreasonable to waste all that money isn't it?
One more thing, what is a reasonable amout to charge over cost to maintain our shops
I think, I may have to politely let you know that there is another shop a reasonable distance down the road.
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Bill Barber
Well-Known Member
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Great post
The real answere is, go back to carbs, and distributors, no puters, screw the EPA
We need simple.:lol:
Great post
The real answere is, go back to carbs, and distributors, no puters, screw the EPA
We need simple.:lol:
Jeff Jolley
Well-Known Member
Bill, yours is the most reasonable post anyone has posted in a long time. 
:banana:
:banana:Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
1tech,
I'm with you if the customer is wrong. But when the failed part is obvious then it's kind of meaningless to charge a diag fee. In my opinion, there was no diagnostic to be done. The failed part was obvious and it needed replacing. If I was WRONG, then it would have been "on me" and if I had to pay more, then fine. But I wasn't wrong, and it was arguably an obvious failure.
AdrnlnRush,
You make me sound somewhat like a nutjob, and sarcasm is a weak debate tactic. (Google the words: Sarcasm and Recourse).
You said:
I and I say most everyone else would think it is unreasonable to be charged a diagnostic fee to diagnose a broken part that is causing a failure.
Question: If you took a car in with a broken headlight...literally smashed in and broken, and the dealer charged you a "diagnostics fee" to replace the headlight would you be pi$$ed?
I would be!
I see very little difference between that example and a mechanical switch that clearly isn't working and one can feel and hear that it isn't working. If you want me to describe how abundantly clear it was that the switch was broken then I will post more details.
Diagnostic fees should, IMHO, be for diagnosing a problem. They should be charged when actual, substantial work is done to figure out the root cause of a problem. In my case, I told them the root cause and LITERALLY two pulls in the multifunction switch were all that was needed to verify. It is UNREASONABLE to be charged $80 for that, just as it would be unreasonable for the service tech to look at a smashed in headlight and say: "Yep...that's your problem right there!"
As I said, I have GIVEN customer service, and I have RUN my own business. I know right from wrong, and gouging customers is wrong...always has been, always will be.
I'd LOVE it if shops around here waived diag fees when doing repair work, but they must not think such a practice is reasonable.
Lastly, Adrnlrush, some of the absurd questions above about what is or isn't reasonable actually are worth discussing in another thread. However MOST are simply absurd, sarcastic jabs to try to make my viewpoints seem absurd as welll.
As I said, if you can with a straight face say that it is reasonable to charge a diagnostic fee to replace a busted headlight (for example), then we are done talking because your skewed version of what is reasonable and expected is far from mine. A busted mechanical switch, a busted-in headlight...all the same to me. Either they are broke, or they aren't, and a visual/touch inspection is all that is needed. If such passes as "diagnostics" these days that dealers expect/demand to get paid for then they and all that work for them (with such attitudes) can die a quick horrible economic death as far as I am concerned. Go the way of the dinosaurs. But, maybe that is what we are seeing now. Maybe the attitude that is wrong isn't the consumer's, but is the dealer's (the evidence lately would indicate that is probably true).
If you nickel and dime (and gouge) consumers they WILL spend their dollars elsewhere, especially in tough times.
TJR
I'm with you if the customer is wrong. But when the failed part is obvious then it's kind of meaningless to charge a diag fee. In my opinion, there was no diagnostic to be done. The failed part was obvious and it needed replacing. If I was WRONG, then it would have been "on me" and if I had to pay more, then fine. But I wasn't wrong, and it was arguably an obvious failure.
AdrnlnRush,
You make me sound somewhat like a nutjob, and sarcasm is a weak debate tactic. (Google the words: Sarcasm and Recourse).
You said:
I and I say most everyone else would think it is unreasonable to be charged a diagnostic fee to diagnose a broken part that is causing a failure.
Question: If you took a car in with a broken headlight...literally smashed in and broken, and the dealer charged you a "diagnostics fee" to replace the headlight would you be pi$$ed?
I would be!
I see very little difference between that example and a mechanical switch that clearly isn't working and one can feel and hear that it isn't working. If you want me to describe how abundantly clear it was that the switch was broken then I will post more details.
Diagnostic fees should, IMHO, be for diagnosing a problem. They should be charged when actual, substantial work is done to figure out the root cause of a problem. In my case, I told them the root cause and LITERALLY two pulls in the multifunction switch were all that was needed to verify. It is UNREASONABLE to be charged $80 for that, just as it would be unreasonable for the service tech to look at a smashed in headlight and say: "Yep...that's your problem right there!"
As I said, I have GIVEN customer service, and I have RUN my own business. I know right from wrong, and gouging customers is wrong...always has been, always will be.
I'd LOVE it if shops around here waived diag fees when doing repair work, but they must not think such a practice is reasonable.
Lastly, Adrnlrush, some of the absurd questions above about what is or isn't reasonable actually are worth discussing in another thread. However MOST are simply absurd, sarcastic jabs to try to make my viewpoints seem absurd as welll.
As I said, if you can with a straight face say that it is reasonable to charge a diagnostic fee to replace a busted headlight (for example), then we are done talking because your skewed version of what is reasonable and expected is far from mine. A busted mechanical switch, a busted-in headlight...all the same to me. Either they are broke, or they aren't, and a visual/touch inspection is all that is needed. If such passes as "diagnostics" these days that dealers expect/demand to get paid for then they and all that work for them (with such attitudes) can die a quick horrible economic death as far as I am concerned. Go the way of the dinosaurs. But, maybe that is what we are seeing now. Maybe the attitude that is wrong isn't the consumer's, but is the dealer's (the evidence lately would indicate that is probably true).
If you nickel and dime (and gouge) consumers they WILL spend their dollars elsewhere, especially in tough times.
TJR
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You need to "prove" that the smashed light was not caused by the wiring...LOL.
Seriously, Diagnostic fees are many times a scam to make more money. You got a burned out headlight, no fee. As you said, broken headlight and think I will pay a diagnostic fee, get real!!!
Pretty much items like "Shop Supplies" and "Documentation fee" fall under this.
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen,
$150 in documentation fees when my son bought his 2001 Pontiac. Tried to get them waived...told several times by the salesman that they ALWAYS, ALWAYS charge them. I left it to my son whether or not he was going to "walk" over having to pay them.
That was on top of title and tag fees.
Nickel and dime; nickel and dime.
TJR
$150 in documentation fees when my son bought his 2001 Pontiac. Tried to get them waived...told several times by the salesman that they ALWAYS, ALWAYS charge them. I left it to my son whether or not he was going to "walk" over having to pay them.
That was on top of title and tag fees.
Nickel and dime; nickel and dime.
TJR
I wil pay $150.00 in Documentation fees only if the agreed price comes down $150.00. When my father-in-law purchased his Motorhome, I said "No doc charges". The salesman agreed with me, but said his father DEMANDS they are charged. The doc fees were $200.00 and $250.00 were subtracted from the price of the vehicle. That documentation fee cost the owner $50.00.
I use the reasoning that if he went to the grocery store and they charged him a buck to ring him out, would they be OK with it.
You can't argue with that.
The cost of doing business.
Tom
I use the reasoning that if he went to the grocery store and they charged him a buck to ring him out, would they be OK with it.
You can't argue with that.
The cost of doing business.
Tom
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
TJR:
Sounds like you should have bought your son a Toyota. Then you would be happy and not have all these problems.
Sounds like you should have bought your son a Toyota. Then you would be happy and not have all these problems.
