Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Great post ABS.
I'm gonna regret this
- Thread starter Bart Adkins
- Start date
Help Support Ford SportTrac Forum:
Area 51
Member
Bart;
Is the choir an elective class, or is it a required class (aka you can either take band or choir)?
Are they ONLY singing religious songs, or is it just a couple of them, and then the more traditional ones that you noted that many people even fail to recognise as such?
If the class is a required class, and your son and you both feel strongly against singing the songs, then you need to discuss this with the choir director and/or the school principle if needed. They would probably be willing to work out some alternative grade mechanism for your son to not attend or not sing some of the songs based on your religious beliefs.
If the class is an elective, you should still talk to one or the other about your concerns, but there might be less leeway in allowing an alternative grade mechanism, with the class being an elective.
As far forcing a particular "faith", heck there are are so many branches of the Christian faith that it can make one's head spin....so even saying one is singing a "Christian" song is not necessarily forcing a particular faith down his throat....heck my wife's cousins think she is going to hell because she is a Catholic....and they are Christians of a different faith.
Is the choir an elective class, or is it a required class (aka you can either take band or choir)?
Are they ONLY singing religious songs, or is it just a couple of them, and then the more traditional ones that you noted that many people even fail to recognise as such?
If the class is a required class, and your son and you both feel strongly against singing the songs, then you need to discuss this with the choir director and/or the school principle if needed. They would probably be willing to work out some alternative grade mechanism for your son to not attend or not sing some of the songs based on your religious beliefs.
If the class is an elective, you should still talk to one or the other about your concerns, but there might be less leeway in allowing an alternative grade mechanism, with the class being an elective.
As far forcing a particular "faith", heck there are are so many branches of the Christian faith that it can make one's head spin....so even saying one is singing a "Christian" song is not necessarily forcing a particular faith down his throat....heck my wife's cousins think she is going to hell because she is a Catholic....and they are Christians of a different faith.
Bart Adkins
Well-Known Member
Well here's the update...maybe the last word?...First, thank you all for your input and opinions. I told my son if he didn't want to sing, I wouldn't force him to go. I told him he was right and a public school isn't supposed to do this, but if they do, we should forgive it and go on. I also told him these songs wont hurt him and singing them doesn't change anything. His beliefs are his alone, he can hold them to himself if he chooses.(If more people did that the world would be a better place)...He said the thing that bothered him was that so many people, in a rural area like ours, just assume everybody is a christian...the few who aren't are looked at as future converts. He feels that being a christian because your parents are christians isn't a good enough reason. Faith is something you need to find for youself. He said he'll sing his best, and I thanked him.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Way to go Bart. Sounds like you are doing a great job with your son and he is well on his way of that transitioning to a well-adjusted, insightful adult.
TomT
Well-Known Member
Sounds like your kid is already smarter then a whole lot of adults.
peter barone03
Active Member
Ditto on that Tom T.
Glad things worked out for your Bart.
Pete
Glad things worked out for your Bart.
Pete
Paul Maurer 2
Well-Known Member
Bart- glad it worked out and thanks for the post- as a dad to two boys 3 and 1yo, its helpful to read about the issues I might face. Sounds like grumpy got the scenario and solution just about right. I am a Catholic by upbringing and confirmation but an atheist by education and life experience, and my son attends Catholic preschool- so I will soon have some issues....
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
lasik1,
I started as an atheist and became Catholic through life experience. If I had any doubts about the existence of God, they were dispelled in college science courses. The human body (or any life for that matter) flys in the face of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. As an educated person, I am sure you know what I mean.
I guess I went against the trend, since most college educated people tend to disbelieve in God as they become more educated.
Bart,
It is good that you can discuss things like this with your son. However, I wouldn't proclaim victory in this case, because the fact remains that your son doesn't believe. As a parent, we protect our children from physical harm without any hesitation. However, my opinion is that we must put even more effort into protecting them from spiritual death, since that is eternal.
I feel that many parents neglect teaching about morality and God, and that has led to a decay in the life of the church and our society in general. If we put as much time and effort into teaching our children about God as we do in teaching them about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and tooth fairy, then we would be heading in the right direction at least.
edit: Wouldn't it be grand if our kids were as excited about Jesus' birthday and his resurrection as they are when Santa or the Easter Bunny is coming?
I started as an atheist and became Catholic through life experience. If I had any doubts about the existence of God, they were dispelled in college science courses. The human body (or any life for that matter) flys in the face of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. As an educated person, I am sure you know what I mean.
I guess I went against the trend, since most college educated people tend to disbelieve in God as they become more educated.
Bart,
It is good that you can discuss things like this with your son. However, I wouldn't proclaim victory in this case, because the fact remains that your son doesn't believe. As a parent, we protect our children from physical harm without any hesitation. However, my opinion is that we must put even more effort into protecting them from spiritual death, since that is eternal.
I feel that many parents neglect teaching about morality and God, and that has led to a decay in the life of the church and our society in general. If we put as much time and effort into teaching our children about God as we do in teaching them about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and tooth fairy, then we would be heading in the right direction at least.
edit: Wouldn't it be grand if our kids were as excited about Jesus' birthday and his resurrection as they are when Santa or the Easter Bunny is coming?
Last edited by a moderator:
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
AMEN Nelson!
I have a buddy at work who laughs at the Evolutionists. He says God has a sense of humor and it was He who created the ape fossils and stuff.
Makes sense to me!
I have a buddy at work who laughs at the Evolutionists. He says God has a sense of humor and it was He who created the ape fossils and stuff.
Makes sense to me!
Ryan Schaecher
Well-Known Member
And the problem with Fear is? There is a common misunderstanding that FEAR and RESPECT are eqivalent. They are not. I did not fear my parents, I respected them. The worst thing in life to me growing up was to disappoint my parents. I could usually care less about a spanking or a grounding (or both), but disappointing my father especially was the worst punishment that I could have. He never trained me that his disappointment was "so bad", but it was something that my brothers and I all took note of.
I am a strict father and "fundamentalist". It is not my job to be my child's best friend. It is my job to teach my child about God, life, respect and all things human. I do not believe in spanking just to spank or because they questioned "why". I do believe in spanking as a general means of getting through to a child ....
Apply the Hand of Knowledge to the Seat of Learning
My child can always come to me with anything.... ANYTHING. If they tell me about something first, before I find out about in other fashions, the punishment will be far less than if they don't say anything or even worse lie about it. It worked for me growing up. I was usually given (1) chance to come clean about something. If I fouled up and didn't admit to it or completely deny or lie about it, the punishment was usually twice as bad.
Most of the time, If I fouled up and told my parents about it before they found out any other way, there was a talking to, maybe some sort of loss of privledges for a day or two when I was older, one or two swats when I was younger if any at all.
"Timeouts" (what a ridiculous notion) don't work on a 3 year old.
Biblically speaking:
Proverbs - Chapter 22:6
6. Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.
Proverbs 6:20-23
20. My son, obey your father's commands, and don't neglect your mother's teaching.
21. Keep their words always in your heart. Tie them around your neck.
22. Wherever you walk, their counsel can lead you. When you sleep, they will protect you. When you wake up in the morning, they will advise you.
23. For these commands and this teaching are a lamp to light the way ahead of you. The correction of discipline is the way of life.
Ephesians - Chapter 6:1-4
1.Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
2. "Honor your father and mother"-which is the first commandment with a promise-
3."that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth."
4. Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord."
Colossians - Chapter 3:20
20. Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.
Proverbs 13:24
24. He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes
and finally:
Proverbs 29:15
"The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
R Shek, regarding "Train up a child"...do you know what "train up" means in this passage?
See the link below...most think it simply means "train", as in "instruct", but it's more than that...
"Train Up" is interpreted from an Arabic word that means "to stimulate desire by creating a taste for" (my crude restatement).
TJR
See the link below...most think it simply means "train", as in "instruct", but it's more than that...
"Train Up" is interpreted from an Arabic word that means "to stimulate desire by creating a taste for" (my crude restatement).
TJR
Last edited by a moderator:
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
I'm both conservative/libertarian AND incredibly politically incorrect. That said, if it was my kid I'd tell him that just because you sing a song doesn't mean you have to believe it or endorse what it says. Schools are caught in the middle in a bad way over some of this.
Sack up, sing the song, and get over it. Time to learn that not everything in life will go his way, not everyone cares about his opinion, and sometimes you have to grin and bear stuff, then move on and don't worry about it. Pick your battles.
More and more it seems freedom of speech bumps into freedom of religion and the establishment clause.
Sack up, sing the song, and get over it. Time to learn that not everything in life will go his way, not everyone cares about his opinion, and sometimes you have to grin and bear stuff, then move on and don't worry about it. Pick your battles.
More and more it seems freedom of speech bumps into freedom of religion and the establishment clause.
Last edited by a moderator:
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Here's something timely for those that say "I teach my kids to not question authority/adults"...
Here is a girl that worked at McDonald's. Read the story linked below. She was humiliated and sexually molested (arguably) by her manager (and it appears another) who was supposedly following instructions of a policeman (an imposter) who suspected the girl of stealing a purse of a customer in the restaurant. The humilation ended up being a two-hour ordeal.
I heard about the story on the radio, googled it, and the link is below.
The girl was quoted in an interview when asked "Why did you do what you were being told?", and her answer:
"My parents always told me to do what adults say!"
TJR
Here is a girl that worked at McDonald's. Read the story linked below. She was humiliated and sexually molested (arguably) by her manager (and it appears another) who was supposedly following instructions of a policeman (an imposter) who suspected the girl of stealing a purse of a customer in the restaurant. The humilation ended up being a two-hour ordeal.
I heard about the story on the radio, googled it, and the link is below.
The girl was quoted in an interview when asked "Why did you do what you were being told?", and her answer:
"My parents always told me to do what adults say!"
TJR
