ObamaCare Incompetence

Ford SportTrac Forum

Help Support Ford SportTrac Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I serve on the baord of directors for a small non-profit agency. We have approximately 85 employees that we provide health insurance and other benefits. Our accountant has informed us that we will save over $800,000 a year next year if we do not offer any health insurance and just pay the penalty. He showed us his numbers and they are true. The insurance we provide now is very crappy. It has a $2000 per person deductible and hardly covers anything. We are planning to just pay the penalty and use the $800,000 for our clients and other needs.



This is very sad.



i remember not long ago, "If you like your present plan, you can keep it." Not sure what he meant by that. Guess it was a lie or just smoke and mirrors, because he sure didn't say that we could afford it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't mind sharing: I pay just shy of $500/mo for our family plan PPO with $5k deductible and would be hard pressed to find something not covered or someone who does not accept it. Definitely not coverage provided by our employers, who offered nothing we needed and HMOs which are a sentence to crappy doctors in a small town. Worth every penny to me. And believe me, as recently wedded 20-somethings, we ain't rich. We just prioritize.



I would like to keep this insurance. You can keep your plan but the idea is to make it too expensive to keep. I will pay the increase next year when Obama's law tries to price us out of the market and into crappy care. It already increased last August by almost $100. I'm ready for this game I don't think my family can afford to lose.



For those who "can't afford insurance", would you mind sharing how much your vehicle payments are in comparison to your health insurance. I expect no response so this is more of a rhetorical question for the affected to ponder.



For the record, my education on healthcare comes from reading legislation (really, as a policy analyst perspective not "news" sites), family members in healthcare including two physicians, a RN, an administrator, an assisted living director, a best friend in oncological surgery residency and as a consumer. I'd love more quality resources, though, if anyone of good report has some recommendations.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Anyone on this thread that is speaking ill of the law is lying, trying to spin, or just spewing partisan slander.



No question Frank, you are either naive or ignorant regarding this debacle.
 
Gavin,



i remember not long ago, "If you like your present plan, you can keep it." Not sure what he meant by that. Guess it was a lie or just smoke and mirrors, because he sure didn't say that we could afford it.



That is exactly what I was talking about earlier....It was recently announced by ObamaCare's Healthcare Reform Administrator, that many people will have to pay more to keep their same insurance...oops! It appears that many people who are very healthy and live a healthy life style do not opt for the more comprehensive, and more expensive health insurance plans. They prefer to have much higher deductibles, and higher CoPays or just pay the full charge. They have their policies in the event of a catastrophic illness or injury.



It appears that those kinds of policies do not meet the ObamaCare sniff test, so they are being forced to upgrade their insurance to comprehensive and more expensive plans that they don't want or need?



Hugh,

I don't think that comparing one's automobile payment vs their health insurance premium proves anything.



Most people buy cars and know they will have a fixed payment amount for the term of the loan. Health insurance does not work that way...nearly every year they jack up the premiums and often reduce coverage. People buy cars and insurance to fit their needs and their walet. Why are people being forced to pay more and more for health insurance plans that they don't need or don't want?



If ObamaCare requires everyone to have insurance with the same minimum coverage, then we should all pay the same rate for the same coverage and their should be only one plan, and it should be available to anyone. Nobody should be allowed to buy any other health insurance plan.... If I cannot choose the plan that provides me the minimum coverage that fits my needs and my budget, then wealthier people should not be allowed to pay more for more comprehensive coverage...That means that all of our politicians must be on the same plan as the rest of us, no exemptions and no exceptions. I will embrace ObamaCare when I see Obama, Biden or the Clinton's sitting in the waiting room of a local clinic to see a doctor



Also, why is the employer being forced to offer these plans? The reason for Employer based health insurance was that at one time the employer paid some portion of the premium to attract employees, and the employees got a "Group" rate premium for their portion. Now more and more employers are not providing health insurance or paying any portion of employee's premium.



When I left employment at a local hospital (many years ago) I was offered Cobra insurance that would extend my health insurance for 90 day, but it required me to pay the full premium. That's when I found out that the Employer was only contributing $10 a month to my nearly $300 a month premium. What was even more upsetting was that this health plan was an HMO that was run by the hospital and non-employees could buy the same coverage at same rates that employees paid?



I think your job and your family's relationship to health care makes your opinions on health care costs an expenses too biased. Insurance companies want higher premiums for less coverage, Doctors and hospitals want more money for their services, and the average citizens is forced to pay and ever increasing amount for people who don't pay anything. ObamaCare does not change that....Somebody has to pay for those who cannot afford health insurance, and the people who have insurance will be the ones forced to pay.



...Rich



 
Somebody has to pay for those who cannot afford health insurance,



What exactly is the definition of someone who cannot afford health insurance?



Which is most important health insurance or vehicle insurance? I guess it would be vehicle insurance if someone else is going to pay your health insurance.



Who determines if you cannot afford health insurance. No one, because if you show up at the clinic and claim you god given right to health care. You will get it free, then you can go sell you food stamps for wine and cigs, while you talk on your free cell phone.



God Bless America















 
I think your job and your family's relationship to health care makes your opinions on health care costs an expenses too biased



I work at Home Depot so I don't think my job has anything to do with it.



Inside information on how healthcare works seems to be better information than that from politicians and the media. We're all consumers as well, so it's not like we love paying high prices for things. If anything, we know WHY we pay high prices for it. That's like saying an automotive worker thinks all cars should be more expensive even if it prices him out of purchasing one.



I suppose we could just show up anonymously at the ER, get care and walk out with the comfort that it's someone else's cost. The knowledge of that level of care isn't very comforting, though. Visual inspections seem ok with some here, but I'll repeat, that is not good enough for my family.
 
My doctor said I was so bad off he would have to send me to rehab for a month before he would even consider me good enough to be pronounced dead.



:bwahaha::bwahaha::bwahaha:



That's how Obama care will work. Keep me alive until the next vote. That's only if I checked the right boxes on my medical form.
 
Redfish,

What exactly is the definition of someone who cannot afford health insurance?



Good question? It appears that those people who's employer does not provide 100% paid coverage, or anyone who decides not to pay for health insurance whether it's offered or not? My complaint is that even those who are wealthy enough to have limited coverage, are being forced to buy more comprehensive plands that they don't want or don't need.



Hugh,

No offense but you did say:



For the record, my education on healthcare comes from reading legislation (really, as a policy analyst perspective not "news" sites), family members in healthcare including two physicians, a RN, an administrator, an assisted living director, a best friend in oncological surgery residency and as a consumer. I'd love more quality resources, though, if anyone of good report has some recommendations.



That implies you have friends and relatives in the Health Care field....and also implies that your job may require you to read health care legislation? Either way, that does not justify a comparison of Auto payment to Healthcare payments...everybody had different needs and different requirements...and they may even change from year to year. Just ask any 18-20 year old college student about Health care and retirement and they will probably laugh in your face. As you get older, acquire a family and mature, you soon realize that Health Care and Retirement planning is much more real and more significant factor with each year you and your family grow older. Much of the problem is that these issues were never raised or understood when people were young and invincible.



...Rich



 
Haters gonna hate...no matter what.



If Romney would have been in office and passed (his plan was very similar to Obamas) the healthcare bill, you nay-sayers would be all for it.



Simply ridiculous!
 
My studies and interests lead me to read health care legislation, not my current job (not career). Also part of my idea of citizenship, but I know that doesn't appeal to everyone, lol. My job at Home Depot (and a second part time job) pays the bills and tuition, or more accurately, is being saved.



I do have family in friends in the medical field. I don't think their jobs make them want health care to be expensive. They pay for it, too. My point was that they see what changes are happening in the field and the reasons for costs. They also know the importance of good healthcare and good insurance as they see the results of poor care and poor insurance/lack thereof.
 
Hugh,

Soaring healthcare cost is nothing new. It has been going on for over 50 years and even before Medicare was enacted in 1965. I just don't think that people should be forced into paying for some healthcare plan they they don't want or need. I agree that many people have no insurance and no money to pay their medical bills.



As stated earlier, there are people who are very healthy and live a healthy life style who do not want or need a comprehensive and expensive healthcare insurance plan...They are content to pay for their infrequent outpatient office visits and only have healthcare insurance to cover those catastrophic events that might require major surgery and extended hospital stays.



These people are being forced to purchase more expensive comprehensive insurance when Obama promised that if you had health insurance you could keep your same insurance...That has recently been shown to be a lie. That makes people wonder what other lies have we been told and when will we finally get the bad news that it was all a pack of lies.



Even Medicare offers you the option to only used Medicare Part-A coverage. If you want more comprehensive coverage to include your outpatient visits, you must sign up and pay for Medicare Part-B coverage.



I suggest that if the Government wants everybody in the US to be covered by health insurance, then they should pay for it they have plenty of it, they just need to stop sending $$ Billions to Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and other countries to try to buy their friendship.



Why are we borrowing money from China and then giving money to other countries while the US government has so many financial issues that there are constant cut-backs in government services and obligations to our own citizens?



...Rich
 
I suggest that if the Government wants everybody in the US to be covered by health insurance, then they should pay for it they have plenty of it, they just need to stop sending $$ Billions to Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and other countries to try to buy their friendship.



Why are we borrowing money from China and then giving money to other countries while the US government has so many financial issues that there are constant cut-backs in government services and obligations to our own citizens?





+1

:fire:
 
As another example of how out of control our system is I just received the bill for my back brace. The initial bill from my neurosurgeon's office to the insurance company was $1,120. That was negotiated down to $956 of which I am responsible for $191. All for a bit of nylon, velcro and plastic. It's a nice brace but $1,120? Seriously?



BTW, the same brace is available on Amazon for $302.99.
 
As another example of how out of control our system is I just received the bill for my back brace. The initial bill from my neurosurgeon's office to the insurance company was $1,120. That was negotiated down to $956 of which I am responsible for $191. All for a bit of nylon, velcro and plastic. It's a nice brace but $1,120? Seriously?



BTW, the same brace is available on Amazon for $302.99.



That's why patients need to shop around for the best deals. This is why insurance costs so much in the USA.



I buy a certain medication from an India pharmacy. Six months worth costs $43 with shipping. If I bought it at my local pharmacy, it would be $203.50 a month. The Indian med comes packaged in European-market packaging and passes European medication standards, which are stricter than the American counterpart. I just have to submit the Paypal receipt to my insurance company for reimbursement.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Right. It's real easy to make judgments after you have some of the facts but I seriously doubt even someone as brilliant as you would have been able to avoid this particular pitfall. So you really expect a patient to actually be able to go out and buy something like a back brace without any knowledge of what his employer provided insurance will approve? Do you honestly think the surgeon's office is just going to give that kind of info away when they stand to make at least a $600 profit? Even if I had been able to get the correct information I personally would have had to pay the full $302.99, not the $191 that was my portion of the cost through insurance and then I would have had to negotiate with my employer provided insurance company to get reimbursed. Good luck with that.

By the way, I don't have a choice as to which insurance company my employer uses and although I pay a large percentage of the cost of that insurance it is still less expensive than buying my own insurance. I checked. Under Obamacare you and I will probably both have to buy our own insurance because it will be cheaper for our employers to pay the fine than to actually provide insurance. Oh, and let me guess what all that fine revenue will be used for...to provide free health insurance to all the freeloaders who voted for Barry while people who actually work for a living will get stuck with higher insurance costs because their employers can't afford it anymore. Share the wealth baby.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
blksn8k,



Yes, you would have had to pay the full $302.99 Amazon.com price along with any shipping charges.



Part of the trap is that the Doctor will not write you a prescription to buy the back brace from just anyone....That's why he orders and sells them through his office. Some of the extra charge can be attributed to the fact that his office has to file the insurance claim, and they often have to justify the medical necessity for the back brace before the insurance company will pay them anything.



Even if you get a Rx from the doctor, you cannot just buy medical equipment from anyplace. They often have to be a certified medical supply/equipment business who will also file your insurance papers, so they will charge a similar, highly inflated price. Some medical insurance policies require you to use In-Network doctors, clinics, labs, or medical supply companies, or they don't pay anything. These doctors and medical treatment facilities all agree to accept what the insurance company pays, along with your deductible as payment in full. If they are not an In-network provider, the insurance company may not pay them anything, and you get stuck paying the full bill.



Our healthcare system surely needs a lot of reform, but ObamaCare does not address what needs to be done to clean up this mess. It only requires everyone to have Health Insurance whether they can afford it or not, and requires employers to provide some sort of healthcare plan for all employees??



...Rich



 
Our healthcare system surely needs a lot of reform, but ObamaCare does not address what needs to be done to clean up this mess. It only requires everyone to have Health Insurance whether they can afford it or not, and requires employers to provide some sort of healthcare plan for all employees??



Exactly.
 
Top